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Dude stayed in the stacked West his entire career with wayyyy better competition to get to the finals (and has more chips) . He could have vultured even more than Lebron if flew off to the East and established multiple years of SuperTeams between Miami and Cleveland. No Lebron aint above Kobe. Kobe never took the easy way out

Jesus H Christ... You dont think Kobe accomplishes the same crap Lebron did in the East playing with Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love etc?? He did the same or more with LESS in a stacked West once Shaq left. .\

You think Lebron reaches all those finals if he plays in the west? NOPE. The east was a JOKE. Its been a joke for years. And honestly still is (I Mean look at the Celtics road to the finals with all these injured bum ass teams). The west is STILL far superior. And you can't even argue it. For people that say "Oh Kobe was 2nd fiddle to Shaq".. Yea at the time Lebron would have been too in that competitive talent west of the 2000's so the point is moot. Basically Lebron didn't do s** that Kobe wouldn't have accomplished either if played with the G-League East.


Yea.. I said it. And its true. You may not like the answer. But it doesn't make it false. Thats not even to mention the mental toughness/impact standpoint of the game

DorianRo wrote:Dude stayed in the stacked West his entire career with wayyyy better competition to get to the finals (and has more chips) . He could have vultured even more than Lebron if flew off to the East and established multiple years of SuperTeams between Miami and Cleveland. No Lebron aint above Kobe. Kobe never took the easy way out

Jesus H Christ... You dont think Kobe accomplishes the same crap Lebron did in the East playing with Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love etc?? He did the same or more with LESS in a stacked West.\

You think Lebron reaches all those finals if he places in the west? NOPE.

He definitely wins in 2011, that's certain, the rest is likely close.

You will find no support for this proposition here. Lebron outshines Kobe like the sun does a candle.

Yeah, forcing your way to be drafted by a team that quickly brings in a GOAT coach and GOAT peak player while in his peak surrounded by an excellent cast is such a horrid state of affairs to be in when on your rookie contact onward.

Imagine if LeBron spent his first 8 years with prime Shaq. The only cost is 3 years of mediocre support players, which Lebron will carry to 50+ wins easy anyway, and then you spend the rest of your prime with the best support cast in the league. Nice work if you can get it.

If Kobe had been drafted by Charlotte he'd have made zero finals and we'd think of him more like Dominique Wilkins.

I don't agree. First of all, Kobe doesn't have more championships than LeBron as the clear best player on his team. As such, Kobe made the finals 3 times and won twice. Second, I don't think we should penalize players for making the finals. Making the finals at all is a huge accomplishment, and doing it ten times as the leader of a team is an incredible one. And while the eastern conference was weaker than the west, I wouldn't go as far as saying that it was a joke to advance through throughout LeBron's career: there were legitimately strong teams that also wanted to go to the finals but failed to do so. Should we sacrifice the players on *those* teams even more to argue for the greatness of players in the western conference?

One_and_Done wrote:Imagine if LeBron spent his first 8 years with prime Shaq. The only cost is 3 years of mediocre support players, which Lebron will carry to 50+ wins easy anyway, and then you spend the rest of your prime with the best support cast in the league. Nice work if you can get it.

If Kobe had been drafted by Charlotte he'd have made zero finals and we'd think of him more like Dominique Wilkins.

Or maybe he leaves and creates a super team on another MVPs franchise after a bunch of early playoff failures. Nah, you’re right. Kobe would never

KembaWalker wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Imagine if LeBron spent his first 8 years with prime Shaq. The only cost is 3 years of mediocre support players, which Lebron will carry to 50+ wins easy anyway, and then you spend the rest of your prime with the best support cast in the league. Nice work if you can get it.

If Kobe had been drafted by Charlotte he'd have made zero finals and we'd think of him more like Dominique Wilkins.

Or maybe he leaves and creates a super team on another MVPs franchise after a bunch of early playoff failures. Nah, you’re right. Kobe would never

Kobe got dealt 3 years of mediocre teams and immediately started demanding trades and publicly throwing teammates under the bus.

LeBron got 7 years of terrible management in Cleveland and dealt with it like a true professional every step of the way.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and making their own criteria for greatness as long as they have some semblance of internal consistency that they don't misrepresent. It's entertainment at the end of the day.

The overwhelming majority of basketball ranking arguments are just people talking past each other with completely different criterias in their brains, but not clarifying them or even explaining why their criteria is better than another.

Lebron if he spent the 1st 8 years of his career playing with someone actually better than him:

I think the casual audience has the top 3 as Bryant, Jordan, James in some order. Even NBA 2K promotes this in their story mode where they rank the all time players as a goal for player progression

I think there are few arguments for Bryant but there are a lot of arguments in favor of James. Depends who are you arguing and if they have the information or not.

therealbig3 wrote:

KembaWalker wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Imagine if LeBron spent his first 8 years with prime Shaq. The only cost is 3 years of mediocre support players, which Lebron will carry to 50+ wins easy anyway, and then you spend the rest of your prime with the best support cast in the league. Nice work if you can get it.

If Kobe had been drafted by Charlotte he'd have made zero finals and we'd think of him more like Dominique Wilkins.

Or maybe he leaves and creates a super team on another MVPs franchise after a bunch of early playoff failures. Nah, you’re right. Kobe would never

Kobe got dealt 3 years of mediocre teams and immediately started demanding trades and publicly throwing teammates under the bus.

LeBron got 7 years of terrible management in Cleveland and dealt with it like a true professional every step of the way.

LeBrons Cavs teams were dramatically better than those Kobe years

KembaWalker wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:

KembaWalker wrote:
Or maybe he leaves and creates a super team on another MVPs franchise after a bunch of early playoff failures. Nah, you’re right. Kobe would never

Kobe got dealt 3 years of mediocre teams and immediately started demanding trades and publicly throwing teammates under the bus.

LeBron got 7 years of terrible management in Cleveland and dealt with it like a true professional every step of the way.

LeBrons Cavs teams were dramatically better than those Kobe years

Yeah, because of LeBron.

thebigbird wrote:

KembaWalker wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:
Kobe got dealt 3 years of mediocre teams and immediately started demanding trades and publicly throwing teammates under the bus.

LeBron got 7 years of terrible management in Cleveland and dealt with it like a true professional every step of the way.

LeBrons Cavs teams were dramatically better than those Kobe years

Yeah, because of LeBron.

Nah, I mean the other guys

KembaWalker wrote:

thebigbird wrote:

KembaWalker wrote:
LeBrons Cavs teams were dramatically better than those Kobe years

Yeah, because of LeBron.

Nah, I mean the other guys

Idk, Lamar Odom would have pretty instantly been the 2nd best player on the Cavs. And likely would have made the All-Star team.

I mean regardless, the point being, Kobe’s “loyalty” was purely because he was playing on one of the best teams in the league, with the best management, and the best coaching. The second that wasn’t the case, that loyalty shriveled up real quick and he was anything but professional about it. He was actually a whiny baby about it. And this was literally right after he was a whiny baby and was 1/2 the reason the Lakers ended up being mediocre by trading away Shaq (the other 1/2 reason being Shaq).

Never heard a peep out of LeBron until he chose to exercise his right as a free agent. Didn’t force trades, didn’t hold the front office hostage, didn’t publicly throw teammates under the bus, didn’t destroy team chemistry, etc.

LeBron in his first Cleveland stint was 10x the teammate, leader, and franchise player that Kobe was.

Kobe in the east would have been interesting for sure. Kiss those 5 rings goodbye though

therealbig3 wrote:

KembaWalker wrote:

thebigbird wrote:Yeah, because of LeBron.

Nah, I mean the other guys

Idk, Lamar Odom would have pretty instantly been the 2nd best player on the Cavs. And likely would have made the All-Star team.

I mean regardless, the point being, Kobe’s “loyalty” was purely because he was playing on one of the best teams in the league, with the best management, and the best coaching. The second that wasn’t the case, that loyalty shriveled up real quick and he was anything but professional about it. He was actually a whiny baby about it. And this was literally right after he was a whiny baby and was 1/2 the reason the Lakers ended up being mediocre by trading away Shaq (the other 1/2 reason being Shaq).

Never heard a peep out of LeBron until he chose to exercise his right as a free agent. Didn’t force trades, didn’t hold the front office hostage, didn’t publicly throw teammates under the bus, didn’t destroy team chemistry, etc.

LeBron in his first Cleveland stint was 10x the teammate, leader, and franchise player that Kobe was.

I'm a die hard Lakers fan so I still remember he was trying to go to the Clippers and Bulls. Young enough to remember the #NoDengNoDeal fan coalition ha

DorianRo wrote:Dude stayed in the stacked West his entire career with wayyyy better competition to get to the finals (and has more chips) . He could have vultured even more than Lebron if flew off to the East and established multiple years of SuperTeams between Miami and Cleveland. No Lebron aint above Kobe. Kobe never took the easy way out

Jesus H Christ... You dont think Kobe accomplishes the same crap Lebron did in the East playing with Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love etc?? He did the same or more with LESS in a stacked West once Shaq left. .\

You think Lebron reaches all those finals if he plays in the west? NOPE. The east was a JOKE. Its been a joke for years. And honestly still is (I Mean look at the Celtics road to the finals with all these injured bum ass teams). The west is STILL far superior. And you can't even argue it. For people that say "Oh Kobe was 2nd fiddle to Shaq".. Yea at the time Lebron would have been too in that competitive talent west of the 2000's so the point is moot. Basically Lebron didn't do s** that Kobe wouldn't have accomplished either if played with the G-League East.


Yea.. I said it. And its true. You may not like the answer. But it doesn't make it false. Thats not even to mention the mental toughness/impact standpoint of the game

You’re trying too hard. Most of your posts are about LeBron and when you didn’t get enough replies on the general board, you have come here and started this.

thebigbird wrote:

KembaWalker wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:
Kobe got dealt 3 years of mediocre teams and immediately started demanding trades and publicly throwing teammates under the bus.

LeBron got 7 years of terrible management in Cleveland and dealt with it like a true professional every step of the way.

LeBrons Cavs teams were dramatically better than those Kobe years

Yeah, because of LeBron.

^

Some people including a lot of NBA players evaluate the best based on skill set and intangibles. What they can do on the basketball court, how hard they are to defend, mentality etc. A lot of very slippery, hard to define concepts. And yes from that standpoint, you CAN argue Kobe as the GOAT.