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Who was the better shooter?

AI. Takes tougher shots and hits similar percentage to wade on higher volume. Wade has that uber athleticism to help him get open looks.

Redmoon wrote:AI. Takes tougher shots and hits similar percentage to wade on higher volume. Wade has that uber athleticism to help him get open looks.

Can you clarify what the "similar percentages" you are talking about are?

Looking at the career numbers I see:
Wade .554 ts%, (league .539), playoff .549, 605.1 career ts add
Iverson .518ts%, (league .528), playoff .489, (-.425.9) career ts add

That seems to me to be a significant difference, even with Iverson playing in a lower efficiency era, and a MUCH more resilient playoff scoring number for Wade. Those seem the two main number differences between the two (ignoring the defensive edge and the whole attitude thing as exemplified in the "practice" interview).

Also, I don't think Iverson takes a back seat to just about anyone in the athleticism department with his incredible quickness and great body control. Wade was certainly bigger and used the head and body fakes much more effectively when shooting from a standstill.

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penbeast0 wrote:

Redmoon wrote:AI. Takes tougher shots and hits similar percentage to wade on higher volume. Wade has that uber athleticism to help him get open looks.

Can you clarify what the "similar percentages" you are talking about are?

Looking at the career numbers I see:
Wade .554 ts%, (league .539), playoff .549, 605.1 career ts add
Iverson .518ts%, (league .528), playoff .489, (-.425.9) career ts add

That seems to me to be a significant difference, even with Iverson playing in a lower efficiency era, and a MUCH more resilient playoff scoring number for Wade. Those seem the two main number differences between the two (ignoring the defensive edge and the whole attitude thing as exemplified in the "practice" interview).

Also, I don't think Iverson takes a back seat to just about anyone in the athleticism department with his incredible quickness and great body control. Wade was certainly bigger and used the head and body fakes much more effectively when shooting from a standstill.

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Can we understand better "shooter" as everything else except finishing under the rim? Wade is significantly better at finishing under and around the rim - 34.5% of FGA from 0-3ft and finishing at .655FG% vs. 28.7% of FGA from 0-3ft and finishing at .573FG%.

Aside from that, their effective shooting % can be estimated by 3-10, 10-16, 16-30, and 3p distribution:

Wade - 15.6%*.457 (3-10ft) + 14.4%*.384 (10-16ft) + 24.9%*.386 (16ft-3p) +10.6%.293*1.5 (3p)
Allen - 12.0%*.352 (3-10ft) + 16.3%*.370 (10-16ft) + 25.9%*.404 (16ft-3p) + 17.0%*.313*1.5 (3p)

They are very comparable from free throw line, shoot about the same heavy amount (~25%) of long jumpers with AI slightly better; AI is also better from the 3pt range.

I would argue AI is the better SHOOTer, Wade the better finisher. AI playoffs had more struggle as his team was generally less talented than Wade's and him being significantly undersized/doubled not helping.

Thanks, that makes sense.

Iverson.

AI was pretty average to sub average shooter himself, but Wade was a well below average shooter. Prime Wade Pre-Lebron '04/'05 to '09/'10 shot 30% of his shots from 17FT - 22FT & was -1% to -2% Below League Average.

Strongest indicator of his Shooting is his Foul Shooting. The League Average in FT% for a Guard throughout Wade's Prime was 80%. Wade only shot 80% from the Line once in his entire career. He was consistently a 76% - 77% FT shooter which was well below league average amongst Guards.

Wade is odd for me because he had lower percentages for a gaurd but I thought he showed a very good midrange game in the 06 playoffs

CBaller wrote:Better shooter AI or Wade

I think I'd have to go with Al Horford.

CBaller wrote:Wade is odd for me because he had lower percentages for a gaurd but I thought he showed a very good midrange game in the 06 playoffs

Yeah, he was hot. He went from a high 30's in the RS to low-mid 40s in the PS.

After rule changes, Iverson's shooting percentages in the following ranges from 05-08 seasons:

3-10 - 2.7 FGA @ 42.7%
10-16 - 3.9 FGA @ 43.3%
16-3p - 5.5 FGA @ 38.9%
3p - 3.5 FGA @ 32.2%
Career FT% - 78%

Wade:
3-10 - 2.2 FGA @ 47.5%
10-16 - 2.3 FGA @ 38.9%
16-3p - 5.7 FGA @ 38%
3p - 1.9 FGA @ 28.8%
Career FT% - 77%

There may be a very small advantage for Iverson in terms of just shooting from 10 feet and out.

Doctor MJ wrote:

CBaller wrote:Better shooter AI or Wade

I think I'd have to go with Al Horford.

*Iverson

From watching them, I'd lean AI, and I was curious, so I also looked up their shooting stats from range. Wade has this weirdly low percentage of assisted 3's (42.6%). I couldn't find anyone with a figure lower than this or even quite close to it (LeBron at 50% being the closest I saw). Does anyone have any idea why this is?

onedayattatime wrote:From watching them, I'd lean AI, and I was curious, so I also looked up their shooting stats from range. Wade has this weirdly low percentage of assisted 3's (42.6%). I couldn't find anyone with a figure lower than this or even quite close to it (LeBron at 50% being the closest I saw). Does anyone have any idea why this is?

He rarely took spot up threes since he was just never a threat from there and didn't particularly utilize the shot in his arsenal. His off-ball game pretty much disregarded it as an option. So when he ever actually did use threes, it was usually a last resort or when a defender would sag way off him.

Career splits:

Iverson:

0-3: 57.3% (28.7% of his shooting volume)
3-10: 35.2% (12.0%)
10-16: 37.0% (16.3%)
16-23: 40.4% (25.9%)
3pt: 31.3% (17.0%)
FT: 78.0% (.410 FTr)

Wade:

0-3: 65.5% (about 34.5% of his shooting volume)
3-10: 45.7% (about 15.6% of his volume)
10-16: 38.4% (14.4%)
16-23: 38.6% (24.9%)
3pt: 29.3% (10.6%)
FT: 76.5% (.424 FTr)

So a quick glance unearths some obvious differences. Wade was, unsurprisingly, a lot better at getting to and finishing at the rim. That made a very large difference in his overall FG% and efficiency, even if they both drew fouls at a similar rate. He was a half foot or so taller and considerably broader/stronger than Iverson. He was, however, also notably better at finishing in close but away from the rim. That's not a trivial difference, and he did it on a larger proportion of his offense. Pretty similar on middies, but AI gains some separation on long twos, which is a fun comparison since both used that shot at a similar rate relative to their total volume.

Wade's 3pt shooting is somewhat immaterial given his low usage. He took 1874 3s; AI took 3383. Neither of them were much good at them, particularly since mostly they took unassisted, above-break 3s.

I think, though, it's safe to say that AI was a little bit better a shooter. Not much, but a little better.

penbeast0 wrote:

Redmoon wrote:AI. Takes tougher shots and hits similar percentage to wade on higher volume. Wade has that uber athleticism to help him get open looks.

Can you clarify what the "similar percentages" you are talking about are?

Looking at the career numbers I see:
Wade .554 ts%, (league .539), playoff .549, 605.1 career ts add
Iverson .518ts%, (league .528), playoff .489, (-.425.9) career ts add

That seems to me to be a significant difference, even with Iverson playing in a lower efficiency era, and a MUCH more resilient playoff scoring number for Wade. Those seem the two main number differences between the two (ignoring the defensive edge and the whole attitude thing as exemplified in the "practice" interview).

Also, I don't think Iverson takes a back seat to just about anyone in the athleticism department with his incredible quickness and great body control. Wade was certainly bigger and used the head and body fakes much more effectively when shooting from a standstill.

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My bad for replying late haven't checked back in a few days. tsherkin already kinda summarized my point, I was looking at shooting splits from mid range and 3 specifically. Wade to me is clearly the better more impactful player. I just gave AI the edge in terms of pure "shooting skill". AI being much smaller probably takes tougher shots compared to wade. Although you make a great point about Iverson's own advantages in quickness.

Iverson had a career FT% of 78.0% on 8.9FTA/G compared to Wade's career FT% of 76.5% on 7.1FTA/G.

In Iverson's best FT shooting season he had a FT% of 83.5% to Wade's FT% of 80.7%, both on 10.5 FTA/G.

Iverson had a career 3PT% of 31.3% on 3.7FGA/G compared to Wade's career 3PT% of 29.3% on 1.8FGA/G, (which is especially significant when you consider the fact that the average 3P% was lower from 1997-2010 than 2004-2019).

In Iverson's best 3PT shooting season he had 3PT% of 34.1% on 6.0FGA/G (56.8% assisted) to compared to Wade's 3PT% of 33.0% on 3.6FGA/G (54.7% assisted).

Iverson's best mid-range shooting season he shot 40.8% on 10.5FGA/G to compared to Wade's 41.6% on 9.0FGA/G (54.7% assisted).

Their career percentages are basically identical.

So I take Iverson, by a small but clear margin on account of his superior free throw and three point shooting.