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How are the results? How many Finals does he make or rings does he win, if any?

With prime Lebron? Cos Lebron was hurt some of those seasons. Even 23 he was playing on a bum foot.

One thing I'm sure of is they make more finals with Jimmy than if you replaced him with say prime Kobe or Barkley.

I like their odds in 2022. Lebron was a 30/8/6 player in 2022 and posted his best TS+ since 2018. He was still a Top 5 guy in the NBA.

Outside of 2022, LeBron was hurt in the 2021 and 2023 post-seasons. 2024 they get beat by Boston.

Yeah, 2022 is the only chance they would really have IMO. Even so, I don't think Lebron significantly increases their odds over Bulter given the roster they had, not that a significant increase would be needed to change the outcome. Denver was just too good in 2023 and Boston is just too good this year.

I think they may win 1 ring between 21-23

Lebron even when old with a functioning defense and spacing around is still a crazy high floor

RCM88x wrote:Yeah, 2022 is the only chance they would really have IMO. Even so, I don't think Lebron significantly increases their odds over Bulter given the roster they had, not that a significant increase would be needed to change the outcome. Denver was just too good in 2023 and Boston is just too good this year.

The more I think about it, the more LeBron does help their roster.

The team lacked a lead playmaker. Herro, Butler and Bam are all complimentary playmakers but neither were big-time on-ball passers who consistently exploited defenses with their passing/playmaking.

LeBron gives them a lot more size at the 4 compared to Butler, spaces the floor out and is simply a better P&R partner with both Bam and Herro compared to Butler.

LeBron is better at Butler in so many facets [P&R ball-handler and roll-man, Playmaking, Passing, Shooting] that I think all this marginal increases leads to a fairly major jump in impact. LeBron is also the king at getting extremely limited offensive players involved, which includes Strus, Vincent, Lowry and a lesser degree P.J. Tucker [who was actually great for Miami this year].

Butler had his worst series against Boston, where he was up and down, having some ATG performances with some headscratchers.

I also think a LeBron/Bam team matches up better against Golden State than that Boston team with no real size.

Colbinii wrote:

RCM88x wrote:Yeah, 2022 is the only chance they would really have IMO. Even so, I don't think Lebron significantly increases their odds over Bulter given the roster they had, not that a significant increase would be needed to change the outcome. Denver was just too good in 2023 and Boston is just too good this year.

The more I think about it, the more LeBron does help their roster.

The team lacked a lead playmaker. Herro, Butler and Bam are all complimentary playmakers but neither were big-time on-ball passers who consistently exploited defenses with their passing/playmaking.

LeBron gives them a lot more size at the 4 compared to Butler, spaces the floor out and is simply a better P&R partner with both Bam and Herro compared to Butler.

LeBron is better at Butler in so many facets [P&R ball-handler and roll-man, Playmaking, Passing, Shooting] that I think all this marginal increases leads to a fairly major jump in impact. LeBron is also the king at getting extremely limited offensive players involved, which includes Strus, Vincent, Lowry and a lesser degree P.J. Tucker [who was actually great for Miami this year].

Butler had his worst series against Boston, where he was up and down, having some ATG performances with some headscratchers.

I also think a LeBron/Bam team matches up better against Golden State than that Boston team with no real size.

I agree with all these things, but I do feel like GS was far ahead of anyone else that season. Lebron on Miami definitely would have attacked the weak links on GS more than Boston was able to, however that Boston team was still really good defensively. Miami would be a tier or two below that with Lebron (I think Butler grades out pretty equal or perhaps slightly better than Lebron defensively in that situation). Would the offensive gains be enough? I don't really know.

2021: Like every 2020 semifinalist team, short offseason hurt overall health; probably look more competitive, but do not fare meaningfully better.

2022: Make the Finals and have a fair shot to win as underdogs.

2023: If he still has a foot injury then probably no real change in results.

2024: This one is a little interesting. Heat likely are a top four seed, but in any case, I would expect them to lose a competitive series against the Celtics, whether in the second round or in the conference finals.

So higher ceiling primarily because of 2022, but overall not a significant change in expected results. Team not good enough in 2024, Lebron not healthy enough in 2021/23, and still playing at a disadvantage in 2022.

Bit more interesting if we are replacing him with Miami LeBron in these years.

I'm really not sure that 2022 Lebron is better than Jimmy in the playoffs, and 2023 Jimmy was also a monster before he got hurt. I don't think LeBron was capable of having back to back 56-point and 42-point games after 2020.

RCM88x wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

RCM88x wrote:Yeah, 2022 is the only chance they would really have IMO. Even so, I don't think Lebron significantly increases their odds over Bulter given the roster they had, not that a significant increase would be needed to change the outcome. Denver was just too good in 2023 and Boston is just too good this year.

The more I think about it, the more LeBron does help their roster.

The team lacked a lead playmaker. Herro, Butler and Bam are all complimentary playmakers but neither were big-time on-ball passers who consistently exploited defenses with their passing/playmaking.

LeBron gives them a lot more size at the 4 compared to Butler, spaces the floor out and is simply a better P&R partner with both Bam and Herro compared to Butler.

LeBron is better at Butler in so many facets [P&R ball-handler and roll-man, Playmaking, Passing, Shooting] that I think all this marginal increases leads to a fairly major jump in impact. LeBron is also the king at getting extremely limited offensive players involved, which includes Strus, Vincent, Lowry and a lesser degree P.J. Tucker [who was actually great for Miami this year].

Butler had his worst series against Boston, where he was up and down, having some ATG performances with some headscratchers.

I also think a LeBron/Bam team matches up better against Golden State than that Boston team with no real size.

I agree with all these things, but I do feel like GS was far ahead of anyone else that season. Lebron on Miami definitely would have attacked the weak links on GS more than Boston was able to, however that Boston team was still really good defensively. Miami would be a tier or two below that with Lebron (I think Butler grades out pretty equal or perhaps slightly better than Lebron defensively in that situation). Would the offensive gains be enough? I don't really know.

Boston was really good defensively but defended like idiots that series lol

Pelly24 wrote:I'm really not sure that 2022 Lebron is better than Jimmy in the playoffs, and 2023 Jimmy was also a monster before he got hurt. I don't think LeBron was capable of having back to back 56-point and 42-point games after 2020.

The Celtics series was rough because they were literally all hurt and Jimmy especially from g3-5, but honestly this is valid

There’s no shot the heat beat the bucks without Jimmy replacing him with anyone that was crazy