Main Differences between MJ & Kobe: Longer thread
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:03 pm
Though both are legends, and Kobe being my favourite player of all time, we all know that MJ was a superior player to Kobe. This is beyond dispute with my fellow Kobe-stans still in denial needing to move on.
But what were the key differences between the two ? How did these differences impact their games? Rarely seen it analysed in-depth.
Having watched both extensivsly, I want to touch on the key differences here. Know it's long but please read & add to it and/or provide comments. Hope it's informative.
Difference #1: MJ's superior physical qualities, accentuated by era, competition & team structure.
Prime MJ was undoubtedly a more blessed physical specimen than Kobe. More explosive 1st step. Higher leap. Bigger hands. Superior In-air contortion abilities. And on and on.
Peak athletic Kobe, which only lasted briefly could never touch MJ & to be frank, post '05 Kobe was generally moving like late-Chicago MJ with even less lift on his fadeways & jumpshots with an arguably inferior 1st step.
MJ's superior physical qualities allowed him to get cleaner looks on his shots & mitigate the ability of teams to collapse on him when attacking. And combined with his elite skill, he ate. And ate he did on a volume + efficiency never seen before.
Kobe conversely had to rely more on slower, skillful craftiness involving complex dribbling moves, fakes, jabs etc to get cleaner looks & even then he could never get separation like MJ, which relatively hampered him. Watch the game tape & you will see their lift & separation was night & day.
And unlike say Curry or even Luka, Kobe was not a superhuman shooter so the lack of separation hampered him. He hit many tough shots but both his volume & efficiency suffered due to this.
This was accentuated by 3 factors:
First is the zone, generally illegal in MJ's time but legal in Kobe's era. The zone had the effect of clogging lanes for Kobe, and when combined with his slower pace of attack, partly rooted in his physical limitations, his ability to productively attack defenses was hindered due to collapsing defenses. As a result, he relied more on tougher long jumpers with the aforementioned inferior separation. Watch longer game tape of prime Kobe & MJ this will become evident.
Second is competition. Kobe faced longer, bigger, superior athletes than MJ. And because of Kobe's specific physical limitations, this hurt his ability to get cleaner separation from them relative to MJ. MJ's atrocious scoring efficiency in 02 & 03 will give you some insight on Kobe's condition.
Third is different team structures. The Lakers unlike Chicago were not offensively designed to cater to Kobe's physical qualities. When MJ's physical decline began, Chicago put him more in the low post & generally closer to the rim with spacing rather than 30 feet out. And given he still had quality lift, he continued to eat, though it must added his physical decline made life more difficult for him.
Prime Kobe (that is post '00 but especially 06-10) even with physical limitations as the data shows was dynamite in the pinch-post & low post, both as a scorer and playmaker. Big reason for this is that he did not have to attack defenses from 30 feet against the zone & could punish defenses with his passes out on double teams. Stopping Kobe's impact '15 out was a total nightmare.
However he was never fully utilised from these positions like late-MJ because the Lakers needed him to be a perimeter playmaker due to team limitations (e.g. the Odom 'Pippen' experiment in 05-06 failed & Lakers lacked real 1's). And in the Shaq years, the space wasn't there for both he & Shaq, with the focus on creating spacing for Shaq + Kobe's jumpshot during these years being not as refined, limiting Kobe's attack areas.
Also, during his absolute offensive peak (06 & 07) the Laker spacing threat was poor so teams would often cheat off the player attempting to pass off to Kobe in the pinch post/post, either making it more difficult for Kobe to attack or sometimes forcing him to come out to get the ball from 30 feet (compounded by his impatience - see later). He still ate overall of course but he was nonetheless hampered by these conditions.
(Kobe also had a higher, odd variance in the arch of his jumpshots year-in-year out & suffered a slew of injuries & underwent surgies, all of which hampered his offense).
All of these factors hurt Kobe's scoring volume & efficiency output relative to MJ.
Difference #2: MJ's superior basketball mind.
MJ played a smarter, more measured game than Kobe. Relative to Kobe, he was usually under control, playing within his limitations & patiently reading defenses with view of attacking them. His speed of attack was quicker & more intentional. His game was more natural & less scripted, based more on a read-react approach to the game where he more effortlessly combined scoring & basic playmaking out of double deams & drives.
Kobe on the other hand believed he had no shooting limitations & so every shot was good for him. He had a more of a tendency to force the issue when openings were not there & had a more impatient approach to the game e.g. sometimes rather than jostling for better position in a 2-man game, he had the increased tendency to just come out to get the ball from 30 feet. He also was slower in attack & would eat up possessions, allowing teams to better key in on him.
He also had more of a tendency to get into tunnel-vision 'modes' where he'd go one quarter just playmaking & the next just shooting (almost on script), which impacted his own flow (Kobe suffered from more cold stretches than MJ) and his team's flow. More scripted than MJ's more superior read-react approach. This improved during the Gasol years but he never fully resolved it.
Part of this had to do with MJ being properly taught in college & being more open to coaching but a bigger reason I see is just natural differences in their basketball minds. Kobe perhaps intellectually knew the game better than MJ but his ability to apply said knowledge to best effect was inferior.
The consequences of this is that once again, is that it contributed to MJ having the edge in both scoring volume & efficiency, made him more consistent as a player & made his teams more stable in play over the course of their primes.
Difference #3: MJ's superior defense.
This goes without saying. MJ was the better, more consistent defender with the biggest gap being in team-D. MJ's superior physical qualities & better motor helped him in playing the lanes & lunging for weakside blocks. His reaction speed was also quicker, which allowed him to pounce better. Both gambled yes, but MJ was better at it.
Both were good 1 on 1 defenders when keyed in with similar limitations, though to my eyes MJ was more consistent. Haven't seen much on MJ here but Kobe had a tendency to overplay his opposition & had some issues in the p & r (and in the post when he was younger, though MJ had issues here too).
MJ also was just less lazy as Kobe had a bigger tendency to aimlessly zone off shooters & lazily chase shooters, though Kobe would improve on this in pressure situations & the playoffs. To my eyes, it appears Kobe had bigger motor issues than MJ & prioritised self-preservation for key moments.
Neither were world-beaters defensively impact-wise, (MJ winning DPOY & a good chunk of Kobe's All-D 1st teams were laughable) which is unsurprising given they were both guards. But MJ was simply better on D for the reasons outlined & was never a liability as Kobe was sometimes.
Difference #4: Kobe's superior playmaking & ball handling.
Might suprise some that I say Kobe was a superior playmaker given the tunnel-vision mode issue i raised earlier & MJ's more gaudy assist numbers exemplified in '89 & the '91 finals outing.
However even with this in mind, Kobe has MJ beat.
MJ's playmaking consisted mostly of basic passes out from double teams, drive and dumps & sometimes drives-swing out to shooters. But he was never a quality floor general & when he attempted to be one, he'd generate more gaudy assist numbers but his team's offense would generally be limited. It was when Pippen took this over & MJ's assists ironically fell that Chicago's offense flew.
Kobe could do all that MJ could on playmaking at an arguably higher level (e.g. more complex interior dishes), however he could also run the p & r fairly well with very crafty & sneaky passes to boot & hit cutters, run quality 2-man and 3-man game better (Kobe-Gasol-Odom 3-man game was a thing of beauty). His ability to hit interior bigs in the right areas & times was ace (Shaq has spoken on this previously).
His superior shooting *threat* also made him a superior spacing unit in a 2-man game, making life for bigs like Gasol & Odom easier. He was always the floor general for the Lakers & could generate quality offenses while being so, something MJ did not generally show.
Kobe was also the superior ball handler, unsurprising given he came after MJ & had to develop it more given his physical limitations. MJ relied more on quick 1 step blow by moves while Kobe methodically broke down defenders with his superior handles. Both protected the ball well.
This superiority in ball handling I contend actually contributed to Kobe being a better playmaker as it allowed him to be a more diverse playmaker, mesh with diverse talent better, play the passing angles better, with his better off hand opening angles that would otherwise not be there. The way Kobe worked with Gasol '08 right off the bat speaks loudly to me. Kobe's playmaking bag was more valuable to team offenses than MJ's bag.
I think the early years with PJ-Shaq & close work with Tex Winter really shaped Kobe here. Notwithstanding his limitations, he became a quality floor general as a 2-guard and it is the most underrated aspect of his game alongside his playoff resilliency.
But what were the key differences between the two ? How did these differences impact their games? Rarely seen it analysed in-depth.
Having watched both extensivsly, I want to touch on the key differences here. Know it's long but please read & add to it and/or provide comments. Hope it's informative.
Difference #1: MJ's superior physical qualities, accentuated by era, competition & team structure.
Prime MJ was undoubtedly a more blessed physical specimen than Kobe. More explosive 1st step. Higher leap. Bigger hands. Superior In-air contortion abilities. And on and on.
Peak athletic Kobe, which only lasted briefly could never touch MJ & to be frank, post '05 Kobe was generally moving like late-Chicago MJ with even less lift on his fadeways & jumpshots with an arguably inferior 1st step.
MJ's superior physical qualities allowed him to get cleaner looks on his shots & mitigate the ability of teams to collapse on him when attacking. And combined with his elite skill, he ate. And ate he did on a volume + efficiency never seen before.
Kobe conversely had to rely more on slower, skillful craftiness involving complex dribbling moves, fakes, jabs etc to get cleaner looks & even then he could never get separation like MJ, which relatively hampered him. Watch the game tape & you will see their lift & separation was night & day.
And unlike say Curry or even Luka, Kobe was not a superhuman shooter so the lack of separation hampered him. He hit many tough shots but both his volume & efficiency suffered due to this.
This was accentuated by 3 factors:
First is the zone, generally illegal in MJ's time but legal in Kobe's era. The zone had the effect of clogging lanes for Kobe, and when combined with his slower pace of attack, partly rooted in his physical limitations, his ability to productively attack defenses was hindered due to collapsing defenses. As a result, he relied more on tougher long jumpers with the aforementioned inferior separation. Watch longer game tape of prime Kobe & MJ this will become evident.
Second is competition. Kobe faced longer, bigger, superior athletes than MJ. And because of Kobe's specific physical limitations, this hurt his ability to get cleaner separation from them relative to MJ. MJ's atrocious scoring efficiency in 02 & 03 will give you some insight on Kobe's condition.
Third is different team structures. The Lakers unlike Chicago were not offensively designed to cater to Kobe's physical qualities. When MJ's physical decline began, Chicago put him more in the low post & generally closer to the rim with spacing rather than 30 feet out. And given he still had quality lift, he continued to eat, though it must added his physical decline made life more difficult for him.
Prime Kobe (that is post '00 but especially 06-10) even with physical limitations as the data shows was dynamite in the pinch-post & low post, both as a scorer and playmaker. Big reason for this is that he did not have to attack defenses from 30 feet against the zone & could punish defenses with his passes out on double teams. Stopping Kobe's impact '15 out was a total nightmare.
However he was never fully utilised from these positions like late-MJ because the Lakers needed him to be a perimeter playmaker due to team limitations (e.g. the Odom 'Pippen' experiment in 05-06 failed & Lakers lacked real 1's). And in the Shaq years, the space wasn't there for both he & Shaq, with the focus on creating spacing for Shaq + Kobe's jumpshot during these years being not as refined, limiting Kobe's attack areas.
Also, during his absolute offensive peak (06 & 07) the Laker spacing threat was poor so teams would often cheat off the player attempting to pass off to Kobe in the pinch post/post, either making it more difficult for Kobe to attack or sometimes forcing him to come out to get the ball from 30 feet (compounded by his impatience - see later). He still ate overall of course but he was nonetheless hampered by these conditions.
(Kobe also had a higher, odd variance in the arch of his jumpshots year-in-year out & suffered a slew of injuries & underwent surgies, all of which hampered his offense).
All of these factors hurt Kobe's scoring volume & efficiency output relative to MJ.
Difference #2: MJ's superior basketball mind.
MJ played a smarter, more measured game than Kobe. Relative to Kobe, he was usually under control, playing within his limitations & patiently reading defenses with view of attacking them. His speed of attack was quicker & more intentional. His game was more natural & less scripted, based more on a read-react approach to the game where he more effortlessly combined scoring & basic playmaking out of double deams & drives.
Kobe on the other hand believed he had no shooting limitations & so every shot was good for him. He had a more of a tendency to force the issue when openings were not there & had a more impatient approach to the game e.g. sometimes rather than jostling for better position in a 2-man game, he had the increased tendency to just come out to get the ball from 30 feet. He also was slower in attack & would eat up possessions, allowing teams to better key in on him.
He also had more of a tendency to get into tunnel-vision 'modes' where he'd go one quarter just playmaking & the next just shooting (almost on script), which impacted his own flow (Kobe suffered from more cold stretches than MJ) and his team's flow. More scripted than MJ's more superior read-react approach. This improved during the Gasol years but he never fully resolved it.
Part of this had to do with MJ being properly taught in college & being more open to coaching but a bigger reason I see is just natural differences in their basketball minds. Kobe perhaps intellectually knew the game better than MJ but his ability to apply said knowledge to best effect was inferior.
The consequences of this is that once again, is that it contributed to MJ having the edge in both scoring volume & efficiency, made him more consistent as a player & made his teams more stable in play over the course of their primes.
Difference #3: MJ's superior defense.
This goes without saying. MJ was the better, more consistent defender with the biggest gap being in team-D. MJ's superior physical qualities & better motor helped him in playing the lanes & lunging for weakside blocks. His reaction speed was also quicker, which allowed him to pounce better. Both gambled yes, but MJ was better at it.
Both were good 1 on 1 defenders when keyed in with similar limitations, though to my eyes MJ was more consistent. Haven't seen much on MJ here but Kobe had a tendency to overplay his opposition & had some issues in the p & r (and in the post when he was younger, though MJ had issues here too).
MJ also was just less lazy as Kobe had a bigger tendency to aimlessly zone off shooters & lazily chase shooters, though Kobe would improve on this in pressure situations & the playoffs. To my eyes, it appears Kobe had bigger motor issues than MJ & prioritised self-preservation for key moments.
Neither were world-beaters defensively impact-wise, (MJ winning DPOY & a good chunk of Kobe's All-D 1st teams were laughable) which is unsurprising given they were both guards. But MJ was simply better on D for the reasons outlined & was never a liability as Kobe was sometimes.
Difference #4: Kobe's superior playmaking & ball handling.
Might suprise some that I say Kobe was a superior playmaker given the tunnel-vision mode issue i raised earlier & MJ's more gaudy assist numbers exemplified in '89 & the '91 finals outing.
However even with this in mind, Kobe has MJ beat.
MJ's playmaking consisted mostly of basic passes out from double teams, drive and dumps & sometimes drives-swing out to shooters. But he was never a quality floor general & when he attempted to be one, he'd generate more gaudy assist numbers but his team's offense would generally be limited. It was when Pippen took this over & MJ's assists ironically fell that Chicago's offense flew.
Kobe could do all that MJ could on playmaking at an arguably higher level (e.g. more complex interior dishes), however he could also run the p & r fairly well with very crafty & sneaky passes to boot & hit cutters, run quality 2-man and 3-man game better (Kobe-Gasol-Odom 3-man game was a thing of beauty). His ability to hit interior bigs in the right areas & times was ace (Shaq has spoken on this previously).
His superior shooting *threat* also made him a superior spacing unit in a 2-man game, making life for bigs like Gasol & Odom easier. He was always the floor general for the Lakers & could generate quality offenses while being so, something MJ did not generally show.
Kobe was also the superior ball handler, unsurprising given he came after MJ & had to develop it more given his physical limitations. MJ relied more on quick 1 step blow by moves while Kobe methodically broke down defenders with his superior handles. Both protected the ball well.
This superiority in ball handling I contend actually contributed to Kobe being a better playmaker as it allowed him to be a more diverse playmaker, mesh with diverse talent better, play the passing angles better, with his better off hand opening angles that would otherwise not be there. The way Kobe worked with Gasol '08 right off the bat speaks loudly to me. Kobe's playmaking bag was more valuable to team offenses than MJ's bag.
I think the early years with PJ-Shaq & close work with Tex Winter really shaped Kobe here. Notwithstanding his limitations, he became a quality floor general as a 2-guard and it is the most underrated aspect of his game alongside his playoff resilliency.