Which 3 and D player was the most valuable to his team

[migya]

Which 3 and D player has been/was the most valuable to his team alltime? Contributed to his team winning.

[Dr Positivity]

Are we counting like 2014 Kawhi?

[AEnigma]

2024 Jayson Tatum

[SHAQ32]

Gotta be Robert Horry

[Colbinii]

Klay Thompson is probably the best example of this.

Low AST% and AST Rates, little on-ball ability, excellent POA defender at incredible size.

[TroubleS0me]

Are we counting like 2014 Kawhi?

yes

[Colbinii]

Are we counting like 2014 Kawhi?

yes

So...Klay

[migya]

Klay was more than just a three point shooter, though he did do that alot. Kawhi was a good one. Horry was a great glue player, winning so much and fitting with great teams.

Michael Cooper is one I thought of. Not a current era player but had a few season shooting the three well and was among the best perimeter defenders ever.

[Colbinii]

Klay was more than just a three point shooter, though he did do that alot. Kawhi was a good one. Horry was a great glue player, winning so much and fitting with great teams.

Michael Cooper is one I thought of. Not a current era player but had a few season shooting the three well and was among the best perimeter defenders ever.

What made Klay more 3+D than Cooper or Kawhi?

[migya]

Klay was more than just a three point shooter, though he did do that alot. Kawhi was a good one. Horry was a great glue player, winning so much and fitting with great teams.

Michael Cooper is one I thought of. Not a current era player but had a few season shooting the three well and was among the best perimeter defenders ever.

What made Klay more 3+D than Cooper or Kawhi?

He was an over 20pts a game scorer and did score in other ways more than the usual 3 and D players.

[Colbinii]

Klay was more than just a three point shooter, though he did do that alot. Kawhi was a good one. Horry was a great glue player, winning so much and fitting with great teams.

Michael Cooper is one I thought of. Not a current era player but had a few season shooting the three well and was among the best perimeter defenders ever.

What made Klay more 3+D than Cooper or Kawhi?

He was an over 20pts a game scorer

Do you think Raw PPG is the best measure here? Do you think something like 3P FGA% maybe a better measure?

did score in other ways more than the usual 3 and D players.

This goes hand-in-hand with the first statement.

Do you consider players > 50% 3PA 3+D? If so, it eliminates Klay.

[migya]

What made Klay more 3+D than Cooper or Kawhi?

He was an over 20pts a game scorer

Do you think Raw PPG is the best measure here? Do you think something like 3P FGA% maybe a better measure?

did score in other ways more than the usual 3 and D players.

This goes hand-in-hand with the first statement.

Do you consider players > 50% 3PA 3+D? If so, it eliminates Klay.

That's a good definition

[Colbinii]

He was an over 20pts a game scorer

Do you think Raw PPG is the best measure here? Do you think something like 3P FGA% maybe a better measure?

did score in other ways more than the usual 3 and D players.

This goes hand-in-hand with the first statement.

Do you consider players > 50% 3PA 3+D? If so, it eliminates Klay.

That's a good definition

I agree, and Klay doesn't qualify. I'll have a better answer, but I'm guessing someone like Mikal Bridges or OG Anunoby.

[migya]

Do you think Raw PPG is the best measure here? Do you think something like 3P FGA% maybe a better measure?



This goes hand-in-hand with the first statement.

Do you consider players > 50% 3PA 3+D? If so, it eliminates Klay.

That's a good definition

I agree, and Klay doesn't qualify. I'll have a better answer, but I'm guessing someone like Mikal Bridges or OG Anunoby.

Yea those guys fit the definition and all contributed to winning well

[Special_Puppy]

Klay Thompson is probably the best example of this.

Low AST% and AST Rates, little on-ball ability, excellent POA defender at incredible size.

Why is there such a big gap between advanced stats and the conventional wisdom on Klay Thompson's defense?

[pillwenney]

I think Klay, while excelling in those two areas, doesn't fit the spirit of the definition. The idea of the role player is a guy who is there to spread the floor for your star. Klay through his movement shooting, was the clear second option on a championship team. When teams are running complex actions with your jumper as the first option, you're not really a role player any more--at least, again, by the spirit of the definition. If Reggie were a high level defender, you wouldn't call him a 3&D guy.

If we're to truly limit it to role players, Horry stands out to me--in part because I don't think even at the time, teams quite realized the value of having a legitimate 3 point shooter at the 4 next to an elite post option. It's more commonplace and therefore less valuable now, but back then, his value was really high for that reason.

[Colbinii]

I think Klay, while excelling in those two areas, doesn't fit the spirit of the definition. The idea of the role player is a guy who is there to spread the floor for your star. Klay through his movement shooting, was the clear second option on a championship team. When teams are running complex actions with your jumper as the first option, you're not really a role player any more--at least, again, by the spirit of the definition. If Reggie were a high level defender, you wouldn't call him a 3&D guy.

Reggie was a lot better at operating in the 2-man game with someone like Smits.

Miller also had multiple seasons > 5 Assists/100 Possessions, and most of his prime he was between 4.5 and 5 Assists/100 Possessions.

Klay had 4.4 in 2015 but other than that was routinely in the 2.9-3.5 range.

Furtheremore, Klay had historically low FTR. He was always below .200 FTR and is at a career .135 FTR. Reggie Miller, OTOH, peaked > .500 FTR and is a career .401 FTR.

So, when you say "I wouldn't call Reggie a 3+D Player if he was a higher level defender", you are right, because Reggie Miller is a much better offensive player than Klay Thompson. Reggie Miller had a floor game, he could attack off the dribble and had a much more refined driving game.

[GSP]

Im gonna throw Shane Battiers name in the mix

Memphis was a top 10 defense, top 5 defense and top 3 defense from 04-06 winning 50 games, 45 and 49. Pau was the star but you could argue Shane was their most impactful player. Dpoy level at wing and 38% from 3.

He goes to Houston in 07 and they go from 34 wins to 52. An already elite defense gets even better with him. Meanwhile Memphis goes from a 49 win top 5 defense playoff team to a 22 win lotto team and literally worst defense in the league even though Pau was still there. Houston is a top 5 defense for years and his 3pt shooting just keeps getting better where he's basically making 2 a game at close to 40% shooting.

[flaco]

The first names that come to mind are Klay and young Kawhi. That said, it's about time we included bigs in the discussion: Bucks BroLo, JJJ, old Marc Gasol, old Sam Perkins, Ibaka, Myles Turner, Zinger, Chet, etc. Some of these guys aren't role players, but you get the idea. Generally speaking, bigs have larger defensive impact than wings. I would also argue they have a larger impact in terms of spacing. By forcing opposing bigs to defend the perimeter, they allow slashers to attack the basket.

[AdagioPace]

Danny Green needs to be mentioned (contributing to 3 championships and other remarkable runs). Almost perfect archetype, because putting the ball on the floor,even for a moment, was a death sentence.