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Lebron and Wade were considered two of the top three players in 2010, along with Kobe. They teamed up, with Bosh, another top ten player at that time, and won two in four years, all four years making the finals. If the following duos were created by free agency, suppose if it wasn't actually possible at the time, how do the following teams with two star duos do, each player arguably top 5 the season before, over a five year stretch?



Bird and DrJ - 1983, Philadelphia 76ers. No Moses, rest the same as 1982. 1983-87.

Erving hadn't won one yet, Bird had one and Bird got beaten in 1982 by the doc in seven. A Durant move, certainly not a Bird move but sippose.


Jordan and Olajuwon - 1991, Chicago Bulls. No Cartwright, rest the same as 1990. 1991-95, no Jordan retirement.

Jordan had been beaten by the Pistons three straight years, Olajuwon was playing a lone hand in Houston after Sampson burned out and was losing in the first round the same three years. A Magic and Kareem type of pairing.


Garnett and TMac - 2002, Orlando Magic. 2002-06.

Garnett had lost in the first round five straight years, McGrady had lost two straight years and Grant Hill looked like his career could be over, barely playing the previous season.


CP and Dwight - 2012, New Orleans Hornets. 2012-16.

Dwight had lost in the first round the previous year and was falling out of favor in Orlando. CP had lost in the first round two of the last three years, missing the PS altogether two years ealier. Best Center and PG at that time.


Harden and Kawhi - 2020, Houston Rockets. No Westbrook, still CP. 2020-24.

Kawhi had just won a championship but decided to leave Raptors. Harden had lost two straight years to the Warriors and won less than the year before where they almost made the finals. A Wade and Lebron kind of duo.



How is history affected? How are these players' careers then viewed, better worse, alltime standing?

migya wrote:Lebron and Wade were considered two of the top three players in 2010, along with Kobe. They teamed up, with Bosh, another top ten player at that time, and won two in four years, all four years making the finals. If the following duos were created by free agency, suppose if it wasn't actually possible at the time, how do the following teams with two star duos do, each player arguably top 5 the season before, over a five year stretch?

1) Bosh wasn't a Top 10 player. He made one All-NBA 2nd team in 2007 but was certainly more of a Top 25-30 player most years from 2007-2010.

2) Are we assuming these teams gut their depth? It's important to remember Miami really only had "minimum" level players in their first year (2011) and then added some well past-prime role players with limited but effective skill-sets like Shane Battier and Ray Allen. Young players like Chalmers and Cole were out of the league shortly after their Heatles stint while some journeyman like Chris Andersen helped lock-down the "Limited Center who LeBron makes look like a dominant big man" role on the team. UD was above a minimum guy, but he was hurt in 2011.

Bird and DrJ - 1983, Philadelphia 76ers. No Moses, rest the same as 1982. 1983-87.

Erving hadn't won one yet, Bird had one and Bird got beaten in 1982 by the doc in seven. A Durant move, certainly not a Bird move but sippose.

So the 76ers keep all their depth here? Pretty easily win 2-3 titles over this period. Unlike Wade, Erving stayed relatively healthy over this 4-year stretch. Eliminating the 1983-1987 Celtics (Since Bird is here) certainly helps things.

Jordan and Olajuwon - 1991, Chicago Bulls. No Cartwright, rest the same as 1990. 1991-95, no Jordan retirement.

Jordan had been beaten by the Pistons three straight years, Olajuwon was playing a lone hand in Houston after Sampson burned out and was losing in the first round the same three years. A Magic and Kareem type of pairing.

Man, Jordan/Hakeem AND Pippen? With Horace Grant? This is the most loaded team ever.

Garnett and TMac - 2002, Orlando Magic. 2002-06.

Garnett had lost in the first round five straight years, McGrady had lost two straight years and Grant Hill looked like his career could be over, barely playing the previous season.

The first actual comparable duo. I think 2-3 titles make sense, could potentially get 4?

CP and Dwight - 2012, New Orleans Hornets. 2012-16.

Dwight had lost in the first round the previous year and was falling out of favor in Orlando. CP had lost in the first round two of the last three years, missing the PS altogether two years ealier. Best Center and PG at that time.

Who is on New Orleans here? Do they retain David West?

I doubt they ever win a title.

Harden and Kawhi - 2020, Houston Rockets. No Westbrook, still CP. 2020-24.

Kawhi had just won a championship but decided to leave Raptors. Harden had lost two straight years to the Warriors and won less than the year before where they almost made the finals. A Wade and Lebron kind of duo.

I think they lose to the 2020 Lakers. No shot at winning any other title.

migya wrote:Lebron and Wade were considered two of the top three players in 2010, along with Kobe. They teamed up, with Bosh, another top ten player at that time, and won two in four years, all four years making the finals. If the following duos were created by free agency, suppose if it wasn't actually possible at the time, how do the following teams with two star duos do, each player arguably top 5 the season before, over a five year stretch?



Bird and DrJ - 1983, Philadelphia 76ers. No Moses, rest the same as 1982. 1983-87.

Erving hadn't won one yet, Bird had one and Bird got beaten in 1982 by the doc in seven. A Durant move, certainly not a Bird move but sippose.


Jordan and Olajuwon - 1991, Chicago Bulls. No Cartwright, rest the same as 1990. 1991-95, no Jordan retirement.

Jordan had been beaten by the Pistons three straight years, Olajuwon was playing a lone hand in Houston after Sampson burned out and was losing in the first round the same three years. A Magic and Kareem type of pairing.


Garnett and TMac - 2002, Orlando Magic. 2002-06.

Garnett had lost in the first round five straight years, McGrady had lost two straight years and Grant Hill looked like his career could be over, barely playing the previous season.


CP and Dwight - 2012, New Orleans Hornets. 2012-16.

Dwight had lost in the first round the previous year and was falling out of favor in Orlando. CP had lost in the first round two of the last three years, missing the PS altogether two years ealier. Best Center and PG at that time.


Harden and Kawhi - 2020, Houston Rockets. No Westbrook, still CP. 2020-24.

Kawhi had just won a championship but decided to leave Raptors. Harden had lost two straight years to the Warriors and won less than the year before where they almost made the finals. A Wade and Lebron kind of duo.



How is history affected? How are these players' careers then viewed, better worse, alltime standing?

Hakeem and Jordan (with Pippen and the whole Bulls crew), that's way too easy. Send Jordan's draft choice to Houston in a Ralph Sampson deal and see how the Rockets do the next few years. Note that this assumes no Phil Jackson so it's the Jordan that had people claiming he was too selfish to win a title (though hard to believe of a Dean Smith draft choice who sublimated his ego quite successfully in college) and would be the younger Hakeem who was still pretty raw, especially as a passer.

For Tmac and Garnett, have McGrady sign with Minnesota in free agency instead of the disaster that was the Joe Smith signing and how good would they be (understanding that TMac was not always great with another star; when Hill in Orlando or Yao in Houston would get injured, TMac would go into a nearby phone booth, don his cape, and just be a solo monster but while good, wasn't quite that with Yao when Yao was healthy)?