Throwawaytheone wrote:Colbinii wrote:1964 Oscar Robertson
1991 Michael Jordan
2003 Tracy McGrady
1986 Larry Bird
2003 Tim Duncan
I'm trying to get as much skill on the perimeter as possible to match the Post-2003 team which has an abundance of shot creation, spacing and on-ball skill comparatively.
2017 Steph Curry
2017 Kawhi Leonard
2013 LeBron James
2004 Kevin Garnett
2023 Nikola Jokic
This rendition is leaning into size for an era chalked full of shooting, on-ball skill and intangibles. Maximize spacing around Jokic/LeBron with the most versatile defender who willingly takes a back seat in KG.
Why not use someone like West instead of Oscar? Seems like he'd have more of a multiplicative effect on the team on both ends.
Cool teams Colbinii! The thought of West also occurred to me. Presumably if they chose Oscar over West, they felt like they needed a little more on-ball decision making and passing. Jordan's obviously a strong passer and has had stints where he's more of a point guard, and Larry Bird's obviously one of the best passers ever, but both are at their best when they're in a little more of a hybrid on/off-ball role. And it's not like McGrady or Duncan are going to pick up the on-ball decision making.
If you're going with West instead of Oscar (I'm definitely higher on West for peak, and I like his scalability too), what do people think of either (a) Pippen instead of McGrady or (b) Wilt / Walton instead of Duncan?
West gives better defense, better shooting/floor spacing, and some nice combo guard on/off ball play, obviously at the cost of Oscar's on-ball passing/playmaking (although West is no slouch as a passer/playmaker).
(a) With Pippen, you get someone who can play more of a point-forward style than McGrady, the defense makes a clear jump, and you get a guy with some nice chemistry with Jordan. The loss of shooting in particular from McGrady would definitely sting against the more modern team, although West helps make up for it a bit.
(b) With Wilt/Walton, you don't lose much (if any) on defense (although the defensive style does shift from being a little more mobile to a bit more of a rim protector... so perhaps that's a slight drop vs modern teams), and you still get someone with complementary scoring (compared to if you went all-in on defense with Russell). But you also get someone with more passing, which might fit well with the off-ball abilities of West (over Oscar), Jordan, Bird.
I'm not dead set on any of these! You could also just swap West for Oscar, and have the on-ball playmaking role be split more evenly among West/Jordan/Bird compared to more centralized in Oscar. But if you're worried about missing what Oscar brings but feel West is the better peak to Oscar, choices a/b above might help address the issue!
Thinking tangentially, I would also be interested in why you went for Oscar over Magic. Both have a similar style of on-ball playmaking (with Magic being better). Magic would also bring slightly more floor spacing / shooting. Presumably you thought Oscar's all-around play and potentially his defense would work better than Magic?
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As for the modern team, I like how you manage to complement Jokic's defensive concerns with Garnett, LeBron, and Kawhi.
Me personally, if you already have Curry/LeBron/Jokic on a team, I might prefer to have 2016 Kawhi at shooting guard over 2017 Kawhi. Don't get me wrong, I have 2017 Kawhi as the better overall player on most teams, but he improves as an on-ball scorer, while losing a bit as an off-ball shooter (2016 was his best shooting year) and taking a clear step back as a defender. For this team, 2016 Kawhi's extra off-ball play and shooting seems to pair better with Jokic/LeBron, and getting more defense seems like it would help (who needs 2017 Kawhi on offense when you have 2013 LeBron?).
The other option for the modern team is to commit more to a small-ball Warriors style of team building, and switch Jokic for Durant (moving Garnett up to center and LeBron up to power forward). In this metaphor, Curry = Curry, Kawhi = Rich Man's Klay, Durant = Durant, Garnett = rich Man's Draymond, and if I'm forcing the metaphor, that leaves LeBron as a billionaire version of Andre Iguodala (presumably taking on more of Draymond's on-ball offensive duties than Iguodala with Garnett shifting to be a better defensive anchor than Dray and more of a finisher/scorer).
I have peak Jokic over peak Durant, but it's not too massive of a gap. And the small ball lineup would give you an interesting change in playstyle compared to the Jokic version. You probably get a LeBron that's a bit more on-ball maximized on offense (although it's up to you whether that improvement's enough to make up for the offensive gap between Jokic and Durant). On defense, you lose some defensive rebounding and communication, but gain some versatility and become less vulnerable to perimeter matchup hunting. Perhaps the defensive rebounding is a bit more important and versatility a bit less important against an older-style team compared to a more modern one. But both versions of the modern team would be interesting. There's clear perks to both versions, and I'm not sure which I prefer.