1991 Magic, 1993 Barkley, 1996 Shaq, 1997 Mailman, 2017 KD

[Tim Lehrbach]

Simple question: who was the best player of this lot?

Ulterior motive: the (tired, I know) comparison between the 1996 Bulls and 2017 Warriors came up in another thread, and it occurred to me -- and maybe it's been stated elsewhere -- that Jordan's Bulls may never have beaten a team featuring one player as good as the 2017 Warriors' two best players in a playoff series. I figured I'd put the question to the board. You can add any other playoff foe from Jordan's career who you think compares to these, but I'm not seeing any. If you think any player exceeds Steph, too, you can go there, but I think he comfortably clears the field.

Sorry if this topic is played out, but... thoughts?

[1993Playoffs]

Magic right?

Still in his prime and can lift an offense more then the rest of those guys. Shaq missed a lot of games in 96

[Tim Lehrbach]

Magic right?

Still in his prime and can lift an offense more then the rest of those guys. Shaq missed a lot of games in 96

I think he definitely has the best case over Durant. IIRC, Durant's lift as reflected by ORAPM has indeed underwhelmed compared to other all-timers? (Then again, I always stress that RAPM is about causes and effects of a player on lineup compositions and is not a measure of "goodness.")

[trelos6]

91 Magic is a +5.56 PIPM, (+5.16 O, +0.40 D). 19.04 Wins Added

93 Barkley is a +5.76 PIPM, (+4.63 O, +1.13 D). 20.05 Wins Added

96 Shaq is a +3.3 PIPM, (+2.43 O, +0.87 D). 8.87 Wins Added

97 Malone is a +5.34 PIPM, (+4.77 O, +0.57 D). 18.88 Wins Added

17 KD is a +5.93 PIPM, (+5.3 O, +0.63 D). 14.07 Wins Added

It's close between the top 4, with Shaq's thumb injury harming his stats considerably.

I'd probably lean Magic for his playmaking.

[Owly]

Given the background/purpose of the question ... it doesn't matter.

Whether one (2nd ranked) player is (given the question, probably marginally) better or worse than one other (1st ranked) ...

Say, Orlando being without Horace (or Scott and Anderson suffering another awful exit series with poor shooting) - if playoff opponent and that version of the team is the true focus [not to say Chicago can't have influenced that latter point, but it's unstable and their numbers are very poor versus their season norms].

I'm not saying people can't enjoy thinking about the question, I just don't know that it will provide too much light on any variation of the GS vs Chicago question.

[LukaTheGOAT]

96 Shaq if healthy and closer to his 95 form might be ahead of Magic. I'll give the nudge to Magic because I think his personality &general motor fluctuate less.


91 Magic
96 Shaq
17 Durant
97 Malone
93 Barkley

Malone & Barkley are also close. I defer to Malone because of defensice prowess.

[Djoker]

96 Shaq if healthy and closer to his 95 form might be ahead of Magic. I'll give the nudge to Magic because I think his personality &general motor fluctuate less.


91 Magic
96 Shaq
17 Durant
97 Malone
93 Barkley

Malone & Barkley are also close. I defer to Malone because of defensice prowess.

I agree with this list.

96 Shaq actually had a very strong playoff run. Honestly he gets very little blame from me for the shellacking by the Bulls having watched that series recently. RS was weak because of missed games but I think playoffs take precedence anyhow. Otherwise Shaq is probably last.

[tsherkin]

96 Shaq actually had a very strong playoff run. Honestly he gets very little blame from me for the shellacking by the Bulls having watched that series recently. RS was weak because of missed games but I think playoffs take precedence anyhow. Otherwise Shaq is probably last.

Rodman made a difference. Chicago was all about the three-prong roster with Jordan, Scottie and "a really good PF." And of course Rodman helped them author their best defenses. Shaq, for his part, put 27/11/4 on the Bulls while shooting 64% from the field. Stank ass at the line but was still a 60.4% TS guy against 53.8% league playoff average. He was a monster. And that was a series played at 85.4 possessions per game. He shot 36.4% at the line, which is the main reason he didn't outperform Jordan as a scored in that series. Scott and Anderson were just unutterably awful. Penny was very good, but not great, and also stank at the line for a perimeter guy. And of course Ho Grant only played 28 useless minutes in one game because of the elbow injury.

So it isn't a huge surprise that they lost, and wasn't really Shaq's fault.

[Djoker]

96 Shaq actually had a very strong playoff run. Honestly he gets very little blame from me for the shellacking by the Bulls having watched that series recently. RS was weak because of missed games but I think playoffs take precedence anyhow. Otherwise Shaq is probably last.

Rodman made a difference. Chicago was all about the three-prong roster with Jordan, Scottie and "a really good PF." And of course Rodman helped them author their best defenses. Shaq, for his part, put 27/11/4 on the Bulls while shooting 64% from the field. Stank ass at the line but was still a 60.4% TS guy against 53.8% league playoff average. He was a monster. And that was a series played at 85.4 possessions per game. He shot 36.4% at the line, which is the main reason he didn't outperform Jordan as a scored in that series. Scott and Anderson were just unutterably awful. Penny was very good, but not great, and also stank at the line for a perimeter guy. And of course Ho Grant only played 28 useless minutes in one game because of the elbow injury.

So it isn't a huge surprise that they lost, and wasn't really Shaq's fault.

I agree.

Although if we are really picky, Shaq's turnovers were a bit high with 4.3 per game but I thought he had a good series. Like I wouldn't criticize Shaq for that loss. His teammates were way more culpable. As you said, Scott/Anderson/Grant gave them almost nothing and when that's 3/5 of your starters, it won't go well against a team as great as the Bulls.

[tsherkin]

Although if we are really picky, Shaq's turnovers were a bit high with 4.3 per game but I thought he had a good series. Like I wouldn't criticize Shaq for that loss. His teammates were way more culpable. As you said, Scott/Anderson/Grant gave them almost nothing and when that's 3/5 of your starters, it won't go well against a team as great as the Bulls.

Sure, it wasn't a perfect series, but Chicago was the best D in the league and top 4 at forcing turnovers... and the rest of the team sucked. You get swarmed when that happens. But yeah, it wasn't the highlight of his performance, for sure.

As you say, his teammates were clearly the bigger issue. The Magic didn't lose that series because Shaq averaged an extra turnover per game compared to the RS, or because his FT% sucked, definitely.

[Cavsfansince84]

I think as a straight up #1 KD might be last in this group though 96 Shaq is compromised with injuries and missed games but as a 1b or 2 KD gets unlocked in a way none of the others do outside of maybe pairing Shaq with Magic. That's what made the 17 Warriors so unfair is that pretty much every player just fit so well with all the others on top of 2 mvps, 1 dpoy, a great 3/D player and a 6th man who could do everything.

[migya]

Barkley had a talented Phoenix team but many were injured that season and he carried quite a bit, more than either Curry or Durant did in their careers. Malone always carried the scoring in Utah and they won a heap. Shaq was injured considerably but also carried overall.