Todays League: Oscar Robertson vs Kevin Durant

[Matt15]

Who would you rather build a team around in todays league?

[SlimShady83]

Depands If you want to build a team around bigs Or smalls... Being a small guy I'll almost always choose smalls.

Oscar for me

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[MyUniBroDavis]

Time travel stuff like this never works because if you assume you plop prime oscar today obviously he just doesn’t make the league because logic of pushing someone 60 years into the future, so you’re left with if he’s born today and the leap that he was X% better at X things than league average and extrapolating that to him being X% better at X things than today isn’t a fair jump, especially with how much perimeter play has advanced

[Owly]

Don't much care for time travel stuff ...


That said their own league I'd be instinctively inclined towards Robertson. My instincts (biases?) are he was great and might be underrated versus era peers (don't know how that would hold up to deep scrutiny).

It's hard to do a meaningful, fair time-travel comp. But even if one isn't down on the game as it goes further back, I think they have to become less of a sure thing in the modern game. So somewhat reluctantly I think I'd have to take Durant (like Robertson; don't hate Durant - didn't mind going to GS at all - but burners and "blog boys" and some impressions insincerity with his earlier public persona and impressions on his influence with the Nets, backing Kyrie ... not too into the off court stuff but the impression isn't positive).

[Djoker]

Oscar was so fundamentally sound. A big strong PG that could post smaller guys up and make midrange jumpers at a nice clip. So methodical at destroying defenses with both scoring and passing. Leading #1 offense five years in a row is no joke. Honestly I could see him being a bigger Chris Paul if he grew up today which sounds like potentially GOAT impact.

[Cavsfansince84]

Even if we literally took Oscar straight out of 1960 then said 'build around this guy' I'd take him over KD because I think given a year or two he'd catch up on things like 3pt shooting and how modern offenses tend to be run. That's how much higher I am on Oscar's all around game/intangibles compared to KD. I still have KD as top 20-25 all time but I just don't trust him to be the foundational piece of a franchise as much as I would Oscar. Even given Oscar's rep for being a bit of a grouch. Give him a 5 year/$250m contract and I think he'd be a bit easier to get along with. KD has also been very injury prone past 30.

[MyUniBroDavis]

If you take a guard from the 60s and expect him to be able to adapt to modern offenses and modern, well, everything in two seasons because of “intangibles” I got some news for you lol

Beyond anything, 0% chance any of them would be able to defend whatsoever lol

[Cavsfansince84]

If you take a guard from the 60s and expect him to be able to adapt to modern offenses and modern, well, everything in two seasons because of “intangibles” I got some news for you lol

Beyond anything, 0% chance any of them would be able to defend whatsoever lol

You mean like Luka/Harden ball where they dribble as much as they want before hoisting a 3pter or spam pnr and finish top 3 in mvp voting every year? Ya, I think Oscar could manage to figure that out within a few years. He in many ways was already the prototype of being a helio and was a better athlete than both of those guys without being a defensive liability. Same as LeBron figured out the nba within 2-3 years at a younger age without any college experience.

[MyUniBroDavis]

If you take a guard from the 60s and expect him to be able to adapt to modern offenses and modern, well, everything in two seasons because of “intangibles” I got some news for you lol

Beyond anything, 0% chance any of them would be able to defend whatsoever lol

You mean like Luka/Harden ball where they dribble as much as they want before hoisting a 3pter or spam pnr and finish top 3 in mvp voting every year? Ya, I think Oscar could manage to figure that out within a few years. He in many ways was already the prototype of being a helio and was a better athlete than both of those guys without being a defensive liability. Same as LeBron figured out the nba within 2-3 years at a younger age without any college experience.

If Oscar could teleport to today and somehow be unguardable one on one sure potentially since that’s the obvious prerequisite but he clearly wouldn’t be lol, he’s literally behind on everything and the idea that the playmaking would translate just because lebron is a better playmaker than he was at the age of 17 is hardly a fair assumption. This really is the only place that doesn’t understand the concept of people getting better at sports
As that sport evolves, although the fact that is pretty apparent on tape makes it pretty funny because of this strange idea that because the board is relatively statistically literate compared to other places the average posters eye test is likely good too (it’s not), and therefore completely fringe opinions completely based off eye test is more of a “Rah rah we know this better” than just a crazy opinion lol. It’s truly amazing how people will look at tape of older llayers and see maybe occasional flashes where the absolute best guards look like relatively normal basketball players and somehow extrapolate that to “clearly 2024 NBA level” as if you don’t see flashes of normal basketball play even looking at highschool games lol

I do genuinely wonder at times if people think those 1960s Celtics teams would beat, for example, UCONN, in modern setting…

Half of this helio non helio spam talk about how the league is is just clearly people not understanding what they’re watching, watching people try to break down any sort of pick and roll or defensive coverage especially is painful sometimes here

[iggymcfrack]

Easily Oscar. He’d get a huge boost playing in today’s game with the 3-point line as he was a tremendous shooter. His games more multi-dimensional than KD’s as he was an elite passer and scorer whereas KD mostly doesn’t impact the game much outside of scoring.

[falcolombardi]

Luka and harden are themselves really underrated physically so thst is not angle i would go for in a oscsr vs harden/luka conversatiom

Luka is strong 6'8 wing who has absurd body control and can stop and accelerate on a instant.

Harden does the same thingh in a bulky 6'5 frame with 6'11 wingspan (for context his frame and lenght is very close to kawhi) and everyone always forgets he had legitimately elite tracked speed in the combine.

[Cavsfansince84]

Luka and harden are themselves really underrated physically so thst is not angle i would go for in a oscsr vs harden/luka conversatiom

Luka is strong 6'8 wing who has absurd body control and can stop and accelerate on a instant.

Harden does the same thingh in a bulky 6'5 frame with 6'11 wingspan (for context his frame and lenght is very close to kawhi) and everyone always forgets he had legitimately elite tracked speed in the combine.

I don't underrate them at all as athletes fwiw. Harden is a strong 6-3 I think. Oscar was basically Harden with even more size and slightly more athleticism imo. Luka doesn't have great athleticism but knows how to use his size well which kind of makes up for it but both of those two play in an era where dribbling violations are almost non existent and once you get into the paint you can basically just run to the basket. Oscar with two years would do just fine and even back then he had legit 20-25 ft range and is by rts the most efficient scorer on average probably in league history or close to it even without a 3pt line and more packed paint.

[SlimShady83]

Amazes me this Is between Oscar and KD and yet Luka/Harden talks are In here LMAO.

[penbeast0]

Easily Oscar. He’d get a huge boost playing in today’s game with the 3-point line as he was a tremendous shooter. His games more multi-dimensional than KD’s as he was an elite passer and scorer whereas KD mostly doesn’t impact the game much outside of scoring.

Oscar was a tremendous shooter for his era the way LeBron is a terrific shooter. He would work you for the best shot he could get with the threat of his great passing preventing teams from hard doubles. He was not a terrific shooter in the way Durant (or teammate Jerry Lucas in his day) was a terrific shooter in that he didn't show great range; it wasn't the high percentage shot generally and he was one of the early efficiency stars working mainly the short midrange or going to the hole.

I agree that if you time machined him into today's game without the benefit of modern weight work, training, coaching, PEDs, and equipment, he isn't going to look that good. Give him those and you will find that great athletes tend to be great athletes as you can't teach that level of coordination and court vision. The trouble is that Durant is also a ATG athlete and skill player and one that developed his skills in a much more modern game so yes, he would dominate.

Similarly, Durant time machined into Oscar's day would have difficulty breaking habits of dribbling he has built up over years of practice and would be a Jerry Lucas caliber offensive player (with less rebounding) as the 3 pointer that is his most efficient shot would only be worth two.

[One_and_Done]

It's KD in any league, but especially today.

[Cavsfansince84]

Amazes me this Is between Oscar and KD and yet Luka/Harden talks are In here LMAO.

Not that rare for comparisons of two players to also end up involving other players. I mean, it happens all the time on here.

[SlimShady83]

Amazes me this Is between Oscar and KD and yet Luka/Harden talks are In here LMAO.

Not that rare for comparisons of two players to also end up involving other players. I mean, it happens all the time on here.

I know but still makes me laugh

[Owly]

Easily Oscar. He’d get a huge boost playing in today’s game with the 3-point line as he was a tremendous shooter. His games more multi-dimensional than KD’s as he was an elite passer and scorer whereas KD mostly doesn’t impact the game much outside of scoring.

Oscar was a tremendous shooter for his era the way LeBron is a terrific shooter. He would work you for the best shot he could get with the threat of his great passing preventing teams from hard doubles. He was not a terrific shooter in the way Durant (or teammate Jerry Lucas in his day) was a terrific shooter in that he didn't show great range; it wasn't the high percentage shot generally and he was one of the early efficiency stars working mainly the short midrange or going to the hole.

I am also of the opinion Oscar worked to get the best shot.

I disagree with LeBron as a shooting comp. Of the two offered, in terms of purity of shot, I would go with Durant (himself an elite midrange shooter [one who maybe doesn't utilize this 3-ball as much as he could]).

I don't know how it would translate, so I'm not going to agree with an automatic "huge boost" from three ... especially as this seems to be (I would gues given no context added) a raw jump over this adult pro-player rather than a more generous framing.

But nevertheless ... yes West has a different form and different shot diet ... in the pure test of 15ft shooting we have Robertson is in the sort of territory, albeit towards the bottom end, of where you find some of the great to elite shooters (.838 e.g. Kev Johnson, Ferry, James Jones, Piatkowski, Seth Curry (old number), Redd, H Davis, Terry Porter, Kapono, Jordan, Bass) ... it's not a gulf but West is sometimes hyped as a top tier all-time shooter and at .814 (Perkins, Alridge [old number]) territory ... it's around perhaps about the midpoint between the baseline of ordinary for a starting guard and the bottom end of the numbers for most to signify a great shooter. Then too, West's number drops in the playoffs and Oscar rises (small samples, not saying it necessarily continues but you can tug West down a little and Robertson up a little including those) ...

I'm not saying anything about the three etc...
I just ... West widely gets heralded as a great shooter. Robertson doesn't. Ignore the numbers from the field (a Robertson win area) because of uneven shot diet, ... Robertson in a pretty pure shooting contest (from a particular spot)... not vastly, but not unclearly either, wins. I don't know if there's a racial aspect to this (in general) ... that West isn't just considered better (ft is just one shot) but enough to get that hype and Robertson doesn't ever. Maybe the sort of articles, mags that had such lists weren't looking too deep.

Sorry for the tangent. Maybe there's a hard range cap on him or something. I just think as far as great players go, the purity of Robertson's shot (and fwiw, I think Magic's as well) is underrated. I don't think James (.736 RS career FT%) is a fair comp in that regard.


Whilst I'm here ... Lucas RS career .783. It's good for a big. Maybe he had a form that really worked for those long shots. Don't know if anyone's tracked the volume or accuracy of the "Lucas Layups" (I get he's being talked about for range purposes)... until we do, I think I'd lean skeptical ... especially versus the implication of that nickname.

[MyUniBroDavis]

It's KD in any league, but especially today.

I don’t know man can KD dribble the ball at a elementary school level?

[Samurai]

Since I don't believe time machines exist, I interpret this question to assume Oscar was born in 1988, the same year as Durant. Which means Oscar would have been raised playing basketball in a similar manner with similar strategies and coaching as KD. Then the question is how good of a 3-point shooter Oscar would be if he grew up spamming 3's the way someone like Klay Thompson (only 2 years younger and similar height) has. Oscar's instincts would likely enable him to remain an elite passer and playmaker in this era and he would be a very good rebounder for a guard and an above-average (but not elite) defender. So if he masters the 3-point shot, I would take Oscar. If he doesn't, I'd pick KD.