Prime Bird in 2024

rand · Post #1 » by **rand** » Sun Jul 28, 2024 1:21 pm

Where would prime Larry Bird rank in the just completed 2024 season? Assume Bird gets a full offseason, training camp and preseason to adjust to modern rules/schemes.

SNPA · Post #2 » by **SNPA** » Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:22 pm

Let’s think it through…the three inch taller modern analog of Bird won the MVP this last season, in a league that skews towards big wings. Bird is also better than Jokic. Math seems to all point in one direction.

Hair Jordan · Post #3 » by **Hair Jordan** » Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:44 pm

The two best players last year were Jokic and Luka (arguably). Bird is better than both of them (inarguably). He would dominate.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #4 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sun Jul 28, 2024 10:10 pm

I think he'd be either #2 or #3. Had Larry taken better care of his body in the 79-85 years maybe #1. His prime suffered due to how his body was already compromised by the time it really got going.

Matt15 · Post #5 » by **Matt15** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 12:13 am

He’d be in the mix for best player

kcktiny · Post #6 » by **kcktiny** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 12:40 am

Prime Bird? All-NBA 1st team, top 3 in MVP voting.

Not only was he named all-NBA 1st team his first 9 years in the league (1979-80 to 1987-88), those same 9 years here is how he finished in MVP voting - 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, and 2nd.

SNPA · Post #7 » by **SNPA** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 12:45 am

kcktiny wrote:Prime Bird? All-NBA 1st team, top 3 in MVP voting.

Not only was he named all-NBA 1st team his first 9 years in the league (1979-80 to 1987-88), those same 9 years here is how he finished in MVP voting - 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, and 2nd.

True. But that was against plumbers.

SlimShady83 · Post #8 » by **SlimShady83** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:18 am

Awesome post ... Bird would be top 3, I'd vote number 1 and best of all he still be trash talking

hahaha love those stories of Birds trash talking.

Edit: has there been a Larry Bird/Kevin Durant thread In here before?

iggymcfrack · Post #9 » by **iggymcfrack** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:46 am

He definitely wouldn’t be as good as Jokic. He did have better playoff numbers in ‘86 than SGA though, and I imagine that just being in a modern system he’d take a lot more threes so #2 sounds right.

iggymcfrack · Post #10 » by **iggymcfrack** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:50 am

SNPA wrote:
kcktiny wrote:Prime Bird? All-NBA 1st team, top 3 in MVP voting.

Not only was he named all-NBA 1st team his first 9 years in the league (1979-80 to 1987-88), those same 9 years here is how he finished in MVP voting - 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, and 2nd.

True. But that was against plumbers.

Not plumbers, but there were almost no international players in the league at that point while now the top 5 players are all from overseas. It’s a factor that should be accounted for, but I think it would be made up for by how many more threes Bird would take in a modern system. Relative to league, ‘86 Bird > ‘24 SGA so he deserves the 2 slot.

SNPA · Post #11 » by **SNPA** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 3:10 am

iggymcfrack wrote:He definitely wouldn’t be as good as Jokic.

Why?

iggymcfrack · Post #12 » by **iggymcfrack** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 3:54 am

SNPA wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:He definitely wouldn’t be as good as Jokic.

Why?

Bird’s biggest strength was his passing and Jokic completely crushes him in that category. Jokic is also a much better scorer and much better rebounder. The only potential edge Bird has is defense and both guys are above average but not great defenders.

Post #13 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:59 pm

I'm not seeing Bird as better than Jokic, as a starting point.

He'd definitely sit somewhere around the top 5. Depending on the individual season, he could rank higher. Peak Bird and prime Bird aren't quite the same player, obviously. 84-88, he was a whole other thing.

Seasonally, depending on health and stuff, he's still there competing with some pretty impressive talent in the league right now. Embiid, Luka, SGA and Giannis.

Bird was great, but there IS a great deal of talent in the league right now. SGA is hitting his prime, Giannis is a monster. I think Embiid's probably the one who gets left out due to health/availability and playoff stuff, but he's also very good despite how much folks like to crack on him.

So yeah, Top-5 ish sounds about right to me.

therealbig3 · Post #14 » by **therealbig3** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 2:06 pm

I'd take Bird 2nd or 3rd. I think Jokic is better for sure, and I think a healthy Giannis is too. I think I'll take Bird over the rest.

Colbinii · Post #15 » by **Colbinii** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 3:03 pm

I think he would be in the mix with Giannis/SGA/Luka/Tatum if we are talking about Bird at his peak but some of his weaker prime seasons closer to LeBron/Durant/AD.

bigboi · Post #16 » by **bigboi** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 3:41 pm

Can’t justify Bird over Jokic and Giannis…. Idk how he’d perform on defense but can’t be any worse than Luka so prob slightly above Luka. Embiid kinda disappointing in playoffs so Bird gets nod

wafflzgod · Post #17 » by **wafflzgod** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 3:58 pm

Don't like simply transporting players from different eras to the current one. Relative to his time, Bird was better than any player is currently. But a significant part of his game was being an outlier shooter for his time which would just simply not be the case anymore. And for his era, he was a strong positive defender (and possibly all-defense level wing in his early years) because of his size and IQ, but the lack of foot speed would be a much more glaring issue in today's game on that end.

Post #18 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 4:04 pm

wafflzgod wrote:Don't like simply transporting players from different eras to the current one. Relative to his time, Bird was better than any player is currently. But a significant part of his game was being an outlier shooter for his time which would just simply not be the case anymore. And for his era, he was a strong positive defender (and possibly all-defense level wing in his early years) because of his size and IQ, but the lack of foot speed would be a much more glaring issue in today's game on that end.

There are other benefits to porting forward into today's game which would have impact on his overall profile, of course. But yes, cross-era stuff is always super challenging and fuzzy.

therealbig3 · Post #19 » by **therealbig3** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 4:52 pm

wafflzgod wrote:Don't like simply transporting players from different eras to the current one. Relative to his time, Bird was better than any player is currently. But a significant part of his game was being an outlier shooter for his time which would just simply not be the case anymore. And for his era, he was a strong positive defender (and possibly all-defense level wing in his early years) because of his size and IQ, but the lack of foot speed would be a much more glaring issue in today's game on that end.

Was he relatively better than Jokic, or Giannis from a few years ago?

Jokic won 3 of the last 4 MVPs. Giannis was a back to back MVP winner and also won DPOY. When they won MVPs, they were pretty much the consensus picks as best players in the league, much like Bird was. And they're both still in their primes, although Giannis has had trouble staying healthy. Embiid is another guy who when healthy is right up there as well, but I can't really assume health with him any more.

SHAQ32 · Post #20 » by **SHAQ32** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 5:20 pm

Easily the best player in the league. No question.