Who you pick Today's Game #2~ Hakeem vs Jokic?

[SlimShady83]

Plain and Simple Comparison

Hakeem vs Jokic In Today's game who you pick?

If Hakeem played In today's game you think he would be passing more and shooting more 3's etc?
Who you pick?

Hakeem
2 x chips
seson mvp 1
ppg 21.8
RPG 11.1
APG 2.5

Jokic
1x chip
season mvp 3
20.9 ppg
10.7 rpg
6.9 ASP

While Jokic has 3 season mvp, Hakeem has 2 chips does 1 chip out way 2 season mvp's?

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/nikola_jokic_vs_hakeem_olajuwon.htm

[tsherkin]

If Hakeem played In today's game you think he would be passing more and shooting more 3's etc?

Unlikely. He wasn't a particularly good passer to begin with and was pretty mediocre at making reads. I doubt we'd have seen a huge difference. He'd still be a high-end defender, though, and I imagine we'd see a little boost in his efficiency due to era differences and the likely. He might be a really nasty PnR guy with that jumper and his athleticism and power, though, which might reflect an added wrinkle to his offensive game in this era, which would be nice. And of course he could slash some and was very good moving without the ball to get buckets.

[1993Playoffs]

Hakeem. Imo he’s a better player.

[wafflzgod]

For his time, Hakeem was a better player than Jokic is today. But putting him in today's game would shave off some of his value imo, and I would take Jokic.

Hakeem would still be an amazing all-time defender, probably best defender ITL, but I think his defensive impact would be lower in today's game than he had in the 90s just due to the fact that rim protectors had more impact back then because the game was more paint-oriented/less spaced out. On the offensive end, his game relied primarily on post-up/isolations which are just as not as optimal in the current game as they were in past eras due to how efficient offenses are now. More importantly, it would be much easier for teams to throw doubles at him due to lack of illegal defense rules and with how much better teams are at rotating now, I think his relative passing limitations would be more glaring. Thus I think he loses value as an offensive hub and though I do think he has some skills that would make him a good PnR partner, I am not as confident in how well he scales down into an O2 type of role compared to some other bigs (ex. DRob).

[henshao]

Jokic has reached the point of greatness where it would come down to what pieces I already have

[C to the K]

Dream

Jokic has never beaten a 50 win team in the playoffs

Hakeem beat 4 teams with 57-62 wins in 1995 alone

[oaktownwarriors87]

Dream

Jokic has never beaten a 50 win team in the playoffs

Hakeem beat 4 teams with 57-62 wins in 1995 alone

Yep. Hakeem had the hardest path to a championship while Jokic had the easiest.

[rand]

For today's environment I'll take the guy who has already performed at a GOAT level in this environment. I have no doubt Hakeem would be great today but Jokic has already produced like prime LeBron/Jordan statistically, which Hakeem never did even in his own time.

Far as rings go, everyone should remember that at age 29 Hakeem had one fewer ring than Jokic does now. It wasn't Hakeem's fault the Rockets didn't win in 1986 just like it hasn't been Joker's fault Denver has lost except insofar as they weren't able to carry inferior supporting casts against superior opponents.

[MacGill]

Obviously for today's game you would take Jokic, and that is only because of the differences of how the game is played now versus then. Poster's also need to remember that Hakeem was a soccer player first and never picked up basketball until a teenager. So, I believe how this is supposed to go is that Hakeem, based on his skillsets of the 80-90's etc, into today's game...

But if you told me it was based on potential and Hakeem gets recruited young I would trust his incredible 2-way play in today's game. I honestly don't think it's too hard for any ATG to easily adjust and adapt to any era, so I may even take Hakeem as is, but I'm assuming it's more of a pick and plop into era.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Hakeem pretty easily lol

Not even hate to Jokic Hakeem is probably a top 3-4 pick ever for todays game

[Cavsfansince84]

For today's environment I'll take the guy who has already performed at a GOAT level in this environment. I have no doubt Hakeem would be great today but Jokic has already produced like prime LeBron/Jordan statistically, which Hakeem never did even in his own time.

Far as rings go, everyone should remember that at age 29 Hakeem had one fewer ring than Jokic does now. It wasn't Hakeem's fault the Rockets didn't win in 1986 just like it hasn't been Joker's fault Denver has lost except insofar as they weren't able to carry inferior supporting casts against superior opponents.

Ya It's Jokic to me, not that I'm 100% sure he's the right answer but the spacing and 3 pt line just make his gifts so useful now. The right answer could be Hakeem but Jokic is already a 3x(should be 4x) mvp and fmvp winner while having 3-4x great playoff runs on an individual level so I'd pick him.

[Peregrine01]

If Hakeem played the same way that he did then then it’s Jokic.

[capfan33]

Hakeem pretty easily, with the usual uncertainty with how well he would adapt offensively today. And I'm pretty sure he'd adapt well to today's game even with somewhat suboptimal shot selection and passing limitations. And while I don't think Hakeem would be a good 3 point shooter, his passing limitations were very much a product of the situation he found himself in until 1993, even though at best he's probably a rung below someone like Kareem.

[One_and_Done]

Hakeem fairly comfortably.

[tsherkin]

Hakeem fairly comfortably.

Hakeem certainly has a defense-based argument. He obviously lags compared to Jokic offensively, but the defensive gap is very, very large. So IF you can project him forward offensively in his peak form whilst overcoming his limitations in efficiency, range and playmaking, then that D really creates the final separation.

[penbeast0]

For his time, Hakeem was a better player than Jokic is today. But putting him in today's game would shave off some of his value imo, and I would take Jokic.

Hakeem would still be an amazing all-time defender, probably best defender ITL, but I think his defensive impact would be lower in today's game than he had in the 90s just due to the fact that rim protectors had more impact back then because the game was more paint-oriented/less spaced out. On the offensive end, his game relied primarily on post-up/isolations which are just as not as optimal in the current game as they were in past eras due to how efficient offenses are now. More importantly, it would be much easier for teams to throw doubles at him due to lack of illegal defense rules and with how much better teams are at rotating now, I think his relative passing limitations would be more glaring. Thus I think he loses value as an offensive hub and though I do think he has some skills that would make him a good PnR partner, I am not as confident in how well he scales down into an O2 type of role compared to some other bigs (ex. DRob).

So you feel prime Robinson would be a better player than prime Hakeem in today's game given their actual demonstrated skill sets and the lower value of either as a primary scoring option? I don't disagree though the playoff success Hakeem enjoyed is the main argument the other way but I can tell you that others certainly will.

[wafflzgod]

For his time, Hakeem was a better player than Jokic is today. But putting him in today's game would shave off some of his value imo, and I would take Jokic.

Hakeem would still be an amazing all-time defender, probably best defender ITL, but I think his defensive impact would be lower in today's game than he had in the 90s just due to the fact that rim protectors had more impact back then because the game was more paint-oriented/less spaced out. On the offensive end, his game relied primarily on post-up/isolations which are just as not as optimal in the current game as they were in past eras due to how efficient offenses are now. More importantly, it would be much easier for teams to throw doubles at him due to lack of illegal defense rules and with how much better teams are at rotating now, I think his relative passing limitations would be more glaring. Thus I think he loses value as an offensive hub and though I do think he has some skills that would make him a good PnR partner, I am not as confident in how well he scales down into an O2 type of role compared to some other bigs (ex. DRob).

So you feel prime Robinson would be a better player than prime Hakeem in today's game given their actual demonstrated skill sets and the lower value of either as a primary scoring option? I don't disagree though the playoff success Hakeem enjoyed is the main argument the other way but I can tell you that others certainly will.

No, I do not. All I said was Robinson is an example of a past superstar big who I feel has a skillset easier to scale into a O2 option and would be a better PnR partner. That doesn’t mean I think Robinson would be a better overall player…

[tsherkin]

For his time, Hakeem was a better player than Jokic is today. But putting him in today's game would shave off some of his value imo, and I would take Jokic.

Hakeem would still be an amazing all-time defender, probably best defender ITL, but I think his defensive impact would be lower in today's game than he had in the 90s just due to the fact that rim protectors had more impact back then because the game was more paint-oriented/less spaced out. On the offensive end, his game relied primarily on post-up/isolations which are just as not as optimal in the current game as they were in past eras due to how efficient offenses are now. More importantly, it would be much easier for teams to throw doubles at him due to lack of illegal defense rules and with how much better teams are at rotating now, I think his relative passing limitations would be more glaring. Thus I think he loses value as an offensive hub and though I do think he has some skills that would make him a good PnR partner, I am not as confident in how well he scales down into an O2 type of role compared to some other bigs (ex. DRob).

So you feel prime Robinson would be a better player than prime Hakeem in today's game given their actual demonstrated skill sets and the lower value of either as a primary scoring option? I don't disagree though the playoff success Hakeem enjoyed is the main argument the other way but I can tell you that others certainly will.

No, I do not. All I said was Robinson is an example of a past superstar big who I feel has a skillset easier to scale into a O2 option and would be a better PnR partner. That doesn’t mean I think Robinson would be a better overall player…

The question becomes, why?

Robinson had seasons where he scored more efficiently than today's league average back then with his game, in a fairly simplistic offense with very little help. He wasn't as good a ballhandler or mid-range shooter as Olajuwon and struggled to maintain his scoring value in tougher defensive matchups in the playoffs, but he was a comparable defender and rebounder who exert significant foul pressure on the opposition. And in today's environment, with loads of PnR play and everything, he'd be looking at some tastier options on O.

It becomes an interesting thought, since the primary in-era difference was one of scoring, which wouldn't be super advantageous to Olajuwon in this far more efficient environment.

[90sAllDecade]

Hakeem, he would focus more on shooting threes as he had shooting touch, passing to even more open three-point shooters than he did with the Rockets championship teams. And his defense and ability to switch as well as vertical defense would create an even bigger gap between him and other centers IMO.

He would be basically a better, more athletic, and healthier Embiid in today's game, and one of the best defenders in the league.

[70sFan]

Hakeem, he would focus more on shooting threes as he had shooting touch, passing to even more open three-point shooters than he did with the Rockets championship teams. And his defense and ability to switch as well as vertical defense would create an even bigger gap between him and other centers IMO.

He would be basically a better, more athletic, and healthier Embiid in today's game, and one of the best defenders in the league.

I don't doubt that Hakeem would be better than Embiid, but it's not true that he'd be a better version of Embiid - he never had Embiid shooting touch for example, he was significantly smaller and he didn't draw fouls at comparable rate. Hakeem and Embiid are two completely different players.