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I was reading Bird's memoir Bird Watching, which covers his final years with the Celtics and his time as the Pacers coach, and in it he says he got his infamous back injury in the summer of 1983. This confused me a bit, because I had always heard he got it in 1985. Complicating matters, Bird says after he got back surgery in 1991, the 1991-1992 Celtics went 28-5 before he hurt it again, when in fact it was the 1990-1991 team that got off to that record. Did Bird just getting some dates mixed up during the writing process?

Are you referring to the back injury due to redoing his mother's driveway himself? According to this it did happen in 1985:

The beginning of the end arrived in 1985 when Bird headed back to French Lick, Indiana. His mother’s home needed a new driveway, and, for all his fame and fortune, Larry Legend wasn’t afraid to get his hands dirty.

“Larry decides to do it himself,” Dan Dyrek, Bird’s orthopedic therapist, explained in a Youtube video. “Larry Bird, the superstar, out there breaking his back, literally, shoveling gravel. And that was the beginning of a process.”

From then on, the forward was never the same. As Dyrek explained, Bird’s back would slip out of alignment and lock into abnormal positions, trying to create some stability. While the pain could be managed for a few hours at a time, allowing Larry Legend to hit the court, the issues lingered. Even surgery couldn’t completely return the star to his best.

“Every time I would play, I was wondering if I was gonna be in a wheelchair,” Bird explained. “Was I ever going to be able to, you know, walk on the beach or hold my kids?”

https://www.sportscasting.com/news/larry-bird-ruined-24-million-career-building-a-driveway/

Between this and Magic being HIV positive, it's pretty interesting how the landscape of the NBA was affected by external factors. Obviously the core of the Celtics and Lakers were starting to age out in the late 80s/early 90s anyway, but I still think a legitimate what if exists.

I think its Larry mixing up dates/years but from what I have learned of Larry over the years he hurt it doing the driveway but... that injury occurred mainly due to him already having a condition in his back where the spinal column doesn't function properly and him being so tall probably also adds to it. I have had that happen where I just did something slightly weird and suddenly it was like my whole back gave out and I could barely walk for a few days. Bird actually thought he was going to have to retire before the 86 season until I think Parish gave him some yoga exercises to do and he was able to recover. You'd usually see him lying on his stomach on the sideline though during games because otherwise his back would hurt him too bad. I think he also banged in the paint like he was 260lb though which also took a toll on his back/body.

Clyde Frazier wrote:Are you referring to the back injury due to redoing his mother's driveway himself? According to this it did happen in 1985:

It appears so, but the description in the book doesn't match up perfectly. I'll just quote the section itself:

Larry Bird wrote:My first real back problems cropped up in 1983, when I went home to my house in French Lick for the summer to do some work on my property. One of the first things I wanted to get done was to install some tile around my basketball court, to help with the drainage. I was never much on hiring people to do work I was perfectly capable of doing myself, and this job shouldn't have been a problem. I needed some gravel to seal it, so I got my brother and his friend Eddie to help me spread it. They weren't doing it the way I wanted, so I said the heck with it, and I took that truck full of gravel and did it all myself. It wasn't the best idea I ever had. I woke up the next morning and I said, "Something is wrong." My back was killing me.

Side note: Those who want to diminish Bird’s toughness, toughness in general or try to promote some other players (one specifically who can go unnamed) I will point you to this….


“Every time I would play, I was wondering if I was gonna be in a wheelchair,” Bird explained. “Was I ever going to be able to, you know, walk on the beach or hold my kids?”

SNPA wrote:Side note: Those who want to diminish Bird’s toughness, toughness in general or try to promote some other players (one specifically who can go unnamed) I will point you to this….


“Every time I would play, I was wondering if I was gonna be in a wheelchair,” Bird explained. “Was I ever going to be able to, you know, walk on the beach or hold my kids?”

This is next level strawmanning lol

homecourtloss wrote:

SNPA wrote:Side note: Those who want to diminish Bird’s toughness, toughness in general or try to promote some other players (one specifically who can go unnamed) I will point you to this….


“Every time I would play, I was wondering if I was gonna be in a wheelchair,” Bird explained. “Was I ever going to be able to, you know, walk on the beach or hold my kids?”

This is next level strawmanning lol

I wish.

yeah gonna need you to point out some specific posts calling Bird soft to prop up player X. Otherwise what are we even doing lol?

Texas Chuck wrote:yeah gonna need you to point out some specific posts calling Bird soft to prop up player X. Otherwise what are we even doing lol?

It happens around here semi-regularly. I’m not going to go back to find it amongst the many James/Bird threads. It will happen again soon enough anyways.

Just remember, Bird is as tough as they come. Tell 99.9% of all NBA millionaires they could be paralyzed if they play again and their first response would be to book a Caribbean vacation because they are done with ball.

I mean yeah if you tell someone they are risking paralysis and they already have millions of dollars I would expect many of them to make the smart choice for themselves and their families.

Don't mistake toughness and recklessness...

SNPA wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:yeah gonna need you to point out some specific posts calling Bird soft to prop up player X. Otherwise what are we even doing lol?

It happens around here semi-regularly. I’m not going to go back to find it amongst the many James/Bird threads. It will happen again soon enough anyways.

Just remember, Bird is as tough as they come. Tell 99.9% of all NBA millionaires they could be paralyzed if they play again and their first response would be to book a Caribbean vacation because they are done with ball.

That's called not being an idiot.

Bird says in the book the reason he kept playing was so season ticket holders would get their money's worth, for the record.

B-Mitch 30 wrote:Bird says in the book the reason he kept playing was so season ticket holders would get their money's worth, for the record.

This is the difference.

Jordan has psychological problems around competition and winning. It takes him to levels other, mentally well, athletes don’t go. It makes him extremely hard to beat.

Bird is in this category of extreme competitor but for different mental reasons. Regardless, it’s not the same level as others when it comes to toughness and the willingness to sacrifice. It’s a totally different kind. It makes him extremely hard to beat.

therealbig3 wrote:

SNPA wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:yeah gonna need you to point out some specific posts calling Bird soft to prop up player X. Otherwise what are we even doing lol?

It happens around here semi-regularly. I’m not going to go back to find it amongst the many James/Bird threads. It will happen again soon enough anyways.

Just remember, Bird is as tough as they come. Tell 99.9% of all NBA millionaires they could be paralyzed if they play again and their first response would be to book a Caribbean vacation because they are done with ball.

That's called not being an idiot.

In regular life…of course. Obviously. It’s being an idiot.

At the absolute highest peaks of competition, it’s an advantage.

SNPA wrote:

B-Mitch 30 wrote:Bird says in the book the reason he kept playing was so season ticket holders would get their money's worth, for the record.

This is the difference.

Jordan has psychological problems around competition and winning. It takes him to levels other, mentally well, athletes don’t go. It makes him extremely hard to beat.

Yeah but Jordan was psycholigically exhausted and retired--in the midst of his prime following his Age 29 season.

He was so mentally strong that he simply quit playing. 1 of 1 in that regard.

Colbinii wrote:

SNPA wrote:

B-Mitch 30 wrote:Bird says in the book the reason he kept playing was so season ticket holders would get their money's worth, for the record.

This is the difference.

Jordan has psychological problems around competition and winning. It takes him to levels other, mentally well, athletes don’t go. It makes him extremely hard to beat.

Yeah but Jordan was psycholigically exhausted and retired--in the midst of his prime following his Age 29 season.

He was so mentally strong that he simply quit playing. 1 of 1 in that regard.

Not to derail this into a Jordan thread but his obsession makes sense in the context. He didn’t retire, he changed sports (to one he happened to not be very good at). He didn’t stop seeking the juice.

When it became clear it wasn’t going to happen he came back to the NBA. It’s all consistent.

SNPA wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

SNPA wrote:This is the difference.

Jordan has psychological problems around competition and winning. It takes him to levels other, mentally well, athletes don’t go. It makes him extremely hard to beat.

Yeah but Jordan was psycholigically exhausted and retired--in the midst of his prime following his Age 29 season.

He was so mentally strong that he simply quit playing. 1 of 1 in that regard.

Not to derail this into a Jordan thread but his obsession makes sense in the context. He didn’t retire, he changed sports (to one he happened to not be very good at). He didn’t stop seeking the juice.

When it became clear it wasn’t going to happen he came back to the NBA. It’s all consistent.

That's definitely one way to view the situation.

Annoying personal story. For the record--I saw Bird's toughness and his love of basketball, first hand and up close.

I had Clipper season tickets in the early 90s. We were … not good. We played in the old LA Sports Arena, which I mainly remember for having a lot of plastic that yellowed over the years. The floor had a ton of dead spots, and I learned pretty quickly that you could get there early and see the superstars. The great players always came out early to find where the dead spots were on the floor. If you got to the arena an hour before game time, you’d see great players just walking around and dribbling. They’d stop when they found a spot and dribble for a few seconds there, mentally list it, and move on.

Bird was always there.

He was there in 1991, his last season. To be fair, the Clippers were actually good that year (it was a Harper/Manning year). Still—an away game at a lousy arena against a historically mediocre team, not in your conference or division, you’ve got a huge back injury … and the game is two days before New Year’s. And Bird was out there an hour before, moving slow, but finding the dead spots so he could aim opposing players there and grab a steal.

He tweaked his back in the second quarter and went out. I saw him laying down on the court, and a couple of people (Assistants? Whatever) were pulling on his legs to pop his back into position. Bird actually yelled in pain. And he got up and went back in. He played most of the game. He played in the fourth. The Celtics won, and it wasn’t that close—mainly because of Bird. I can’t stress this enough—that man had no business trying to play basketball that night in that game in his condition. And he played, and he played great.

So don’t ever try and tell me Larry Bird wasn’t the hardest, toughest guy out there. I’m as big of a Magic Johnson fan as you can find, but I’ve never seen a basketball player as tough as Larry Bird.

Nobody has been saying Bird isn't tough. It's just a random made up narrative to take a cheap shot at Lebron for some stupid reason.

And if anyone had questions if this was pure narrative and fandom, look at the spin on Jordan and Bird but still managing to take shots at Lebron who has played more NBA minutes than any other player in history and is still managing to do so at an all-NBA level. Sorry but to start at 19, still be going strong enough to be the best player in the Olympics at 39 means you are pretty tough too.

Of course none of this is zero sum. All your favorite players can be tough. So can some of the guys you don't like. Beyond pointless to take shots at one to elevate another. Beyond beyond pointless to just strawman a narrative to do so.

Bird was a bad man. We know this because all of his contemporaries still talk about him with reverence. But so sorry Lebron is too.

Colbinii wrote:

SNPA wrote:

B-Mitch 30 wrote:Bird says in the book the reason he kept playing was so season ticket holders would get their money's worth, for the record.

This is the difference.

Jordan has psychological problems around competition and winning. It takes him to levels other, mentally well, athletes don’t go. It makes him extremely hard to beat.

Yeah but Jordan was psycholigically exhausted and retired--in the midst of his prime following his Age 29 season.

He was so mentally strong that he simply quit playing. 1 of 1 in that regard.

Yikes, I don’t think I’ve ever heard this one before. There’s the death of his father and a promise to him on his death bed that he’d switch to pro baseball like they’ve always talked about, and was his dad’s dream. There’s also the Stern low-key suspension possibility. Either way, never heard anyone question his mental fortitude.