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To me Jrue Holiday is kind of in that class of "Hall of Very Good" players, maybe like Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison, Joe Johnson... guys who are good and all-star talent, except the Jrue Holiday is someone who plays winning basketball, is well-respected by coaches and players around the league, passes the analytics test, and won 2 championships whereas those guys are like the main guy on a second round exit team.

To compare to some other recent names, I think he's below Chris Bosh, maybe in a Draymond/Klay/Shawn Marion kind of range of players.

Fresh off a title he's bound to get overrated.

giordunk wrote:To me Jrue Holiday is kind of in that class of "Hall of Very Good" players, maybe like Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison, Joe Johnson... guys who are good and all-star talent, except the Jrue Holiday is someone who plays winning basketball, is well-respected by coaches and players around the league, passes the analytics test, and won 2 championships whereas those guys are like the main guy on a second round exit team.

To compare to some other recent names, I think he's below Chris Bosh, maybe in a Draymond/Klay/Shawn Marion kind of range of players.

I don't disagree really but you are underrating Elton Brand a bit, probably better for his era than Chris Bosh though less longevity.

I think he's still a decent amount behind guys like Dumars and Greer but there's some similarity there. I think Jrue is sort of on the cusp of being top 100.

I dont even like draymond the person but he is a different tier of player than jrue

Horace Grant-esque?

More talented Mo Cheeks

In terms of player caliber: Dennis Johnson

Dave DeBusschere

GSP wrote:More talented Mo Cheeks

I'd lean a lot more towards bigger and more athletic but definitely less talented.

giordunk wrote:To me Jrue Holiday is kind of in that class of "Hall of Very Good" players, maybe like Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison, Joe Johnson... guys who are good and all-star talent, except the Jrue Holiday is someone who plays winning basketball, is well-respected by coaches and players around the league, passes the analytics test, and won 2 championships whereas those guys are like the main guy on a second round exit team.

To compare to some other recent names, I think he's below Chris Bosh, maybe in a Draymond/Klay/Shawn Marion kind of range of players.

No one way to answer this, so I'll just say a few things:

First, I tend to zoom in and do judgments by cohorts for players not at the tippy top level.

So for the 2009 Draft, I would rank Jrue 3rd behind Curry & Harden. For a long time Blake Griffin was ahead of Jrue, but at this point I think Jrue has the most significant career.

If I were to expand it into a 3 year window from 2008-10, I would probably put Westbrook and George ahead of Jrue, but it starts to get debatable.

With regard to the Hall of Fame: Yes, I think Jrue is a HOFer.

I reject the idea that "Hall of Very Good" makes sense because we use the word "Fame" rather than "Very Best" for a reason. HOFs are museums talking about history, not about honoring the greatest talents. What Jrue's done at this point as a) the preeminent man defender of his era, b) critical acquisition for 2 NBA chips, and c) critical player for 2 Gold medals, makes him someone worth talking about.

Brand, Jamison, Johnson? Nah, there's nothing really to talk about there other than Johnson choosing a career path that decreased his value while increasing his bank account because NBA teams were silly.

On the other guys:

I think Bosh is a HOFer too, but I think Jrue has a strong case for the better career.

I think Draymond's really on another level from Jrue, and yes, definitely a HOFer.

Klay's a HOFer, but yeah, Jrue has a serious case against him.

Marion. I'm less keen on Marion's HOF candidacy than the other 3. Simply put, him becoming dissatisfied in the optimal role for him to play sabotaged his own career and contributed to the NBA not embracing the pace & space era earlier.

PG tier

Lowry/Porter/Conley/Parker/K.Johnson

Eddie Jones. Career fringe All-Star.

He's not Jamison or Joe... his numbers are pretty good defensively and he's a key cog to 2 title teams. Agree with Lowry/Conley/Parker comparisons... he's not the main guy, he's a lesser guy but he's also really really good, Klay is pretty close to Jrue, but Draymond's a good amount better than Jrue. I wouldn't be shocked if Jrue wins a 3rd title. He has some of that make in him. HoF, yes he's hall of fame worthy.

Among other guards (off the cuff), I’d rank him somewhere in the mix of guys like Kyle Lowry, Maurice Cheeks, Terry Porter, and Jeff Hornacek

Heej wrote:Horace Grant-esque?

I just really appreciate this comparison. Obviously the success is similar but the styles are different. But two great “bridge” players who are somewhere between “stars” and “glue guys”. I feel like late prime Duncan is the absolute best version of this player I’ve seen. Horford who’s also a Celtic has been in this class. I’m really appreciative of players who play like this, team-first “8 pts and a win cool with me” type of game.

The thing with Jrue that adds to his legacy/resume though is the fact that he is almost universally considered the best guard defender in the league for an era now. A lot of great wing defenders these last 20 years. But only Tony Allen has surpassed Jrue in terms of being respected by other NBA players as defenders. Across the board, they respect Jrue’s defense.


He’s behind Billups but ahead of Rondo in my book. A lot of “casuals” will rank Rondo ahead of him and I think Rondo’s HOF case will directly affect Jrue’s potential HOF case. Jrue was a better player. Better/much stronger on D, Rondo had the passing but his shooting was a weakness. It’ll be interesting to see how the basketball HOF votes as we get deeper and deeper time-wise.

giordunk wrote:To me Jrue Holiday is kind of in that class of "Hall of Very Good" players, maybe like Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison, Joe Johnson.

He is galaxies of tiers ahead of a Jamison or Joe Johnson player. Obviously RAPM isn’t everything in this evaluation but take a look at the 28 year RAPM we have in the databall age:



Jamsion and Joe are similar way down the list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WMfP-GVHXCjPfp2sMnBjWB301OtO3LO7n-EKoBSl-iQ/edit?gid=0#gid=0

giordunk wrote:To compare to some other recent names, I think he's below Chris Bosh, maybe in a Draymond/Klay/Shawn Marion kind of range of players.

Draymond is in a much different tier (see above) than these other players you mention though Bosh and especially Marion were high impact players.