RealGM

Randomly crossed my mind as 2 of the premier interior protecting bigs with perimeter mobility for their generation. Who do y'all think rates higher on defense. And if you're so inclined to break it down into subsections, I think AD is a bit better out on the perimeter while Dwight was tougher on the glass for example.

I think Dwight has to rank higher just due to his strength(though he did have skinny legs sort of like AD) but prime Dwight really felt like a guy who was committed to winning dpoys every year. AD didn't have that same level of commitment imo.

I agree with the above post, Davis when he's locked in on that end may be better (equal shotblocking but more mobility) but it was more rare, while Dwight's defensive impact was consistent across his whole peak. I also suspect Dwight was more of a defensive leader interacting with teammates on the court.

I think AD is clearly a better defender for 2020s NBA schemes and Dwight clearly a better defender for 2000s/early 2010s schemes. This is also my exact take on the Draymond/Ben Wallace debate

The three seasons Dwight Howard won DPOY (2008-09 to 2010-11) Orlando on defense allowed the league's lowest 2pt FG% (45.8%, no other team was lower than 46.5%), and grabbed the highest percentage of defensive rebounds (76.7%) among all teams.

Those three seasons Howard grabbed 2344 defensive rebounds (no one else in the league grabbed more than 1913) and blocked 645 shots (no one else blocked more than 413). He was dominant on defense.

Also Howard has 3 seasons of 3000+ minutes played, 6 seasons of 2800 minutes played, 9 seasons of 2400+ minutes played. Davis has never played more than 2727 minutes in a season, and only 4 times has played 2400+ minutes in a season.

Kinda hard to play great defense when you're not on the floor for your team.

This is a great forum question, I wish there was a poll. I'd say that Dwight had the better prime defensively but I think AD has had the better overall career.

EmpireFalls wrote:I think AD is clearly a better defender for 2020s NBA schemes and Dwight clearly a better defender for 2000s/early 2010s schemes. This is also my exact take on the Draymond/Ben Wallace debate

Considering the schemes in the current NBA are more difficult to defend, do you consider AD/Draymond as better?

Colbinii wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:I think AD is clearly a better defender for 2020s NBA schemes and Dwight clearly a better defender for 2000s/early 2010s schemes. This is also my exact take on the Draymond/Ben Wallace debate

Considering the schemes in the current NBA are more difficult to defend, do you consider AD/Draymond as better?

Maybe. I don't think it's fair to judge players for hypothetically not adjusting to eras they didn't have to play in. More importantly as we saw in reality, Dwight was clearly a lot better at dealing with a big center in Jokic than AD was in 2020 - I would absolutely take a peak Dwight over AD if we were talking about playing the Nuggets.

Like I think the 2024 Utah Jazz would probably beat the 90s Jazz but that doesn't mean Sexton and Markannen are better than Stockton and Malone.

EmpireFalls wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:I think AD is clearly a better defender for 2020s NBA schemes and Dwight clearly a better defender for 2000s/early 2010s schemes. This is also my exact take on the Draymond/Ben Wallace debate

Considering the schemes in the current NBA are more difficult to defend, do you consider AD/Draymond as better?

Maybe. I don't think it's fair to judge players for hypothetically not adjusting to eras they didn't have to play in. More importantly as we saw in reality, Dwight was clearly a lot better at dealing with a big center in Jokic than AD was in 2020 - I would absolutely take a peak Dwight over AD if we were talking about playing the Nuggets.

Isn't this sort of missing the point on how the matchup went?

The best way to defend Jokic is to have your best shot blocker be the roamer, defending both the dunkers spot and help on Jokic. Do you really think KAT is a better defender than Rudy since KAT was the one on Jokic?

Like I think the 2024 Utah Jazz would probably beat the 90s Jazz but that doesn't mean Sexton and Markannen are better than Stockton and Malone.

Well it sounds like you are saying they are better in a vacuum but worse relative to the league.

EmpireFalls wrote:I think AD is clearly a better defender for 2020s NBA schemes and Dwight clearly a better defender for 2000s/early 2010s schemes. This is also my exact take on the Draymond/Ben Wallace debate

I feel like Ben Wallace's game would be very portable to the 2020s though? He was super mobile and light on his feet.

Whether his offense would get him played off the floor is another matter though.

Heej wrote:2 of the premier interior protecting bigs with perimeter mobility for their generation.

Did Dwight really have perimeter mobility?
I remember stiff hips and an upright stance. He definitely had quick feet, which allowed him to kind of shuffle into optimal positions to time those jumps. Orlando's scheme was always: funnel everything into Dwight, so there wasn't a ton of Dwight guarding in space.

Dwight played defense like a volleyball player. He shuffled around the court to always put himself in position to best protect the rim, and then this ridiculous ability to get to a tremendous vertical without much load up. I can't find any footage of Dwight venturing away from the paint and guarding the perimeter.

Davis is better on defense unless you factor time lost due to injury. Howard was a good rebounder who chased blocks. Got a lot of goaltends because he wasted his athleticism chasing blocks.

cupcakesnake wrote:

Heej wrote:2 of the premier interior protecting bigs with perimeter mobility for their generation.

Did Dwight really have perimeter mobility?
I remember stiff hips and an upright stance. He definitely had quick feet, which allowed him to kind of shuffle into optimal positions to time those jumps. Orlando's scheme was always: funnel everything into Dwight, so there wasn't a ton of Dwight guarding in space.

Dwight played defense like a volleyball player. He shuffled around the court to always put himself in position to best protect the rim, and then this ridiculous ability to get to a tremendous vertical without much load up. I can't find any footage of Dwight venturing away from the paint and guarding the perimeter.

I remember in his prime he was spoken about as the best big at hard showing and recovering on the PnR and holding up the best on switches. That was in his peak 2011 season tho but you're right not much footage on him doing much more than a high drop that I can find. That's why I'd say AD has a clear advantage there because he's had to do that vs the top guards in the league and holds up ok in the playoffs

Heej wrote:

cupcakesnake wrote:

Heej wrote:2 of the premier interior protecting bigs with perimeter mobility for their generation.

Did Dwight really have perimeter mobility?
I remember stiff hips and an upright stance. He definitely had quick feet, which allowed him to kind of shuffle into optimal positions to time those jumps. Orlando's scheme was always: funnel everything into Dwight, so there wasn't a ton of Dwight guarding in space.

Dwight played defense like a volleyball player. He shuffled around the court to always put himself in position to best protect the rim, and then this ridiculous ability to get to a tremendous vertical without much load up. I can't find any footage of Dwight venturing away from the paint and guarding the perimeter.

I remember in his prime he was spoken about as the best big at hard showing and recovering on the PnR and holding up the best on switches. That was in his peak 2011 season tho but you're right not much footage on him doing much more than a high drop that I can find. That's why I'd say AD has a clear advantage there because he's had to do that vs the top guards in the league and holds up ok in the playoffs

Dwight for sure had all the mobility necessary to execute Orlando's conservative pick & roll coverages. They were conservative though, because the entire key of that defense was keeping Dwight in position to rim protect. They'd rather have a the other defender go over the screen and then chase and recover, than have Dwight hard hedge too far away from the hoop. In Dwight's prime, "ice" and other hard hedging coverages were just becoming popular with Thibs and KG in Boston. By 2012, those kinds of coverages were more widely adopted. Tyson Chandler and Casey/Carlisle popularized them after that title run, but that was just in time for Dwight's career-changing back injury.

I'm not calling Dwight a stiff, I just don't think he was doing a ton of work away from the hoop and I'm not positive he had the overall mobility to thrive at that. I could be wrong though.

At their apex, I genuinely think AD is better.

Howard > AD. Not just as a defense player but as a player in general. Howard at his peak was a monster and gets severely underrated.