Retro Player of the Year 1979-80 UPDATE — Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

[AEnigma]

General Project Discussion Thread

Discussion and Results from the 2010 Project

In this thread we'll discuss and vote on the top 5 players and the top 3 offensive and defensive players of 1979-80.

Player of the Year (POY)(5) — most accomplished overall player of that season
Offensive Player of the Year (OPOY)(3) — most accomplished offensive player of that season
Defensive Player of the Year (DPOY)(3) — most accomplished defensive player of that season

Voting will close sometime after 10:00AM PST on Friday, October 18th. I have no issue keeping it open so long as discussion is strong, but please try to vote within the first three days.

Valid ballots must provide an explanation for your choices that gives us a window into how you thought and why you came to the decisions you did. You can vote for any of the three awards — although they must be complete votes — but I will only tally votes for an award when there are at least five valid ballots submitted for it.

Remember, your votes must be based on THIS season. This is intended to give wide wiggle room for personal philosophies while still providing a boundary to make sure the award can be said to mean something. You can factor things like degree of difficulty as defined by you, but what you can't do is ignore how the player actually played on the floor this season in favor of what he might have done if only...

You may change your vote, but if you do, edit your original post rather than writing, "hey, ignore my last post, this is my real post until I change my mind again.” I similarly ask that ballots be kept in one post rather than making one post for Player of the Year, one post for Offensive Player of the Year, and/or one post for Defensive Player of the Year. If you want to provide your reasoning that way for the sake of discussion, fine, but please keep the official votes themselves in one aggregated post. Finally, for ease of tallying, I prefer for you to place your votes at the beginning of your balloting post, with some formatting that makes them stand out. I will not discount votes which fail to follow these requests, but I am certainly more likely to overlook them.

Current Voter List

Spoiler:

________________________________________
Layaway Voters
* Bad Gatorade
* McBubbles

[Djoker]

Kareem is the definite #1 but this is his last year in the sun.

The order from #2 to #5 is actually tricky. Based on the RS, I'd probably go Bird #2 but he had a tough ECF where he was outplayed by the Doctor. Moses also figures somewhere in there. And then maybe Gervin to round out the ballot or something. Magic had one great game which shouldn't overshadow the entire year's work by other people. Magic will probably just miss out for me.

[AEnigma]

Magic was still in totality the league’s best guard for me, and I think that is worth a lot even if we want to say he was not quite a locked in top three player yet.

[Dr Positivity]

Kareem had exceptional year in regular season and playoffs before injury so he gets first, and I'd go with Erving as a straight forward #2. Leaning Magic over Bird with the efficiency and playmaking advantage making up for less volume scoring.

[One_and_Done]

This is Kareem or Bird for me. Bird's impact is just huge, turning around a lotto team into a 60+ win contender. Could Kareem still do that at his age? I kind of doubt it. Kareem could do this as a younger man, as he showed in his rookie year, but 11 years on I think his impact had started to wane a little.

1. Bird
2. Kareem
3. Irving
4. Magic
5. Gervin

I'll mull on my 5th choice some more, but probably Iceman. Marques is also in contention for me.

Basically, I feel not much of substance changed for the Celtics from 79 to 80. The deck chairs on the titanic got shuffled in good and bad ways, but the overwhelming difference was Bird. At his age I don't see Kareem as capable of that kind of lift anymore.

Magic was great, but he peaked later in his career. It's well known even his finals MVP should have gone to Kareem.

Dr J was not as great as he used to be, due to injuries, but his team was using him right and he was in pretty good health this year. He's an easy #3.

[trelos6]

The times, they are a-changing. We have some fresh talent in the league now, and they are in consideration for the top 5 already.

OPOY

1.George Gervin. It was a tough one, but ultimately, Gervin scored 29 pp75 on +5.6 rTS%. His team rOrtg was +3.3, good for 3rd in the league, and he was by far and away the biggest driver of offense on that team.

2.Kareem Abdul Jabbar. 22.4 pp75 on +10.8 rTS%. League leading, team rOrtg of +4.2. Magic deserves a lot of credit also, but wasn’t quite the passer that he would later become.

3.Magic Johnson. 17.2 pp75 on + 7.1rTS%. League leading team rOrtg of +4.2. He was already a top 5 passer and playmaker in the league. Beats out Moses (24.6, +2.9), and Dr J (26.1, +3.7) on efficiency, and team offensive rating.

HM:Larry Bird. The year prior, the Celtics were the leagues 19th ranked offense, and they basically added Bird and Tiny was another year removed from injury and are now 2nd. He was a 20 pp75 on league average efficiency, but he also provided some secondary playmaking from the forward spot. I could’ve given this to Dr. J or Moses, but I felt like rewarding Larry for his team’s massive turnaround.

DPOY

1.Sam Lacey. Anchored the #1 defense in the league. +2.8 DPIPM

2.Tree Rollins. Anchored the #6 defense in the league. It was Tree vs Kareem, and I’ve been going Kareem in prior years, so just wanted to give Tree Rollins a shout out this year. +3.67 DPIPM

3.Caldwell Jones. Philly were tied for best defense in the league, and were the second best defense in the playoffs. Their roster was stacked with great defensive players, and it’s coming down to minutes, where Caldwell played significantly more than Bobby, so he gets the 3rd and Bobby the HM.

HM:Bobby Jones.

POY

1.Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Kareem makes life easy. Elite scoring volume and efficiency, decent playmaking from a center. Great rim protection. +3.35 OPIPM, +2.12 DPIPM, +5.47 PIPM, 19.18 Wins added.

2.Julius Erving. He just missed out on both offensive and defensive ballots. Dr. J was 26.1 pp75 on +3.7 rTS%. Both numbers only took slight dips in the playoffs. +3.25 OPIPM, +1.42 DPIPM, +4.67 PIPM. 16.5 Wins added.

3.Larry Bird. The legend himself. ‘79 SRS was -4.78, ‘80 SRS was +7.37. Volume scoring at league average efficiency, great secondary playmaking. Very active defensively. +2.16 OPIPM, +1.58 DPIPM. +3.74 PIPM. 13.51 Wins added.

4.George Gervin. I can’t go past Gervin’s scoring at this point. League leading volume on great efficiency. Great team rOrtg. +4.12 OPIPM.

5.Magic Johnson. LIke Bird, there are some players who just elevate their teammates. 17.2 pp75 on +7.1 rTS%. Great passing, though it gets better. Already one of the better playmakers in the league. +2.32 OPIPM, +1.16 DPIPM. +3.48 PIPM. 13.37 Wins added.

HM:Moses Malone. A few options considered. Cedric Maxwell, Gus WIlliams, Marques Johnson all put up strong cases. I ultimately went with Moses. 24 pp75 on +2.9 rTS%. Team rOrtg of +2.8. +3.36 OPIPM. Not great defensively, and that hurts his top 5 chances in 79-80.

[AEnigma]

Offensive Player of the Year

1. Magic Johnson
2. Gus Williams
3. Larry Bird

As will often be the case, I think the playoffs revealed which offensive engines could best maintain their quality of creation against elite teams. Magic is immediately the league’s best point guard, although the presence of Norm Nixon will hold back his passing numbers for a few years yet, and in the Finals he has maybe the most brilliant offensive series anyone will ever see from a rookie, faring much better against the 76ers than Bird did (which will be a trend throughout their careers).

Gus yet again may be a spot or two lower for the regular season only — although now I have him firmly established as the best player on the Sonics — but elevates in the postseason. He and DJ split ball-handling responsibility in much the way Magic does with Nixon, but Gus is brilliant in transition and might have the league’s best handles. His series against the Bucks was masterful, and while the rest of his team fell apart in the postseason, Gus arguably had his individual best.

Defensive Player of the Year

1. Caldwell Jones
2. Tree Rollins
3. Sam Lacey

Caldwell was the defensive anchor of the league’s best defence and second in minutes for the eventual conference champion. Not an all-time defensive talent by any means, but strong rebounder and shotblocker who plays enough minutes that I struggle to see any other specialist providing more defensive value over the course of the season. Kareem is a plausible alternate pick, and I think he could certainly replicate Caldwell’s role if asked, but personally I feel his impressive block rate generally exceeds his real defensive impact when also functioning as a higher usage scorer.

The Hawks had two legitimate candidates here, and evidently the collective prefers Tree over Roundfield. Reasonable enough position this year with Roundfield only playing three hundred more minutes than Tree did.

The “#1 defence” bit overstates Lacey’s place in the hierarchy. Good defensive big, yes, but part of another of these turnover-forcing ensembles. Willing to give him the nod in the absence of real support elsewhere, but this season I see him on par with guys like Cowens, Parish, Sikma, Kareem, etc.

Player of the Year

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Julius Erving
3. Larry Bird
4. Magic Johnson
5. Gus Williams
HM: Bob Lanier

Kareem easy choice here, although I acknowledge that his injury could have cost the Lakers the title and accordingly does not need to be unanimous (in contrast with his own 1971, Wilt’s 1967, or some of those dominant Russell/Mikan title seasons).

Erving underwhelms in Finals Game 6 but otherwise has a complete season. Excels against the Celtics in a way which will not be true for their subsequent matchups, and little doubt remains after that series which star forward is better equipped to lead a team to real title contention this year. Everything preceding that series is enough to keep Bird ahead of Magic though, who shows up at the most crucial moment but otherwise is “merely” excellent.

The fifth spot hurt me, and I hope Lanier receives some recognition for the turnaround he oversaw on the Bucks, but when the Sonics win with basically only Gus capable of providing reliable offensive production, while Lanier plays well but does see his shot volume limited, I think Gus needs to be the final guy, even if someone like Moses was probably better.

The Spurs were an embarrassment, finishing with a negative SRS and as the overall transitive postseason loser: they lost by 8.6 points per game to the Rockets, who lost by 18.5 points per game to the Celtics, who lost by 4.4 points per game to the 76ers, who lost by 5.3 points per game to the Lakers. If people want to acknowledge Marques or Moses here, I understand, but Gervin’s only real achievement this year was yet again winning the scoring title. There were at least five better players in the postseason, and all of them led a better regular season team too.

[penbeast0]

1979-80 was the first year of the 80s superteam era that defined much of the decade. The three clear best teams in the NBA were Boston, LA, and Philly all within a game of 60 wins. LA won the title and Kareem was one of the two statistically best players in the league, the other was Erving in Philly, and Bird and Magic started their storied rivalry with Bird the early leader.

A step back, Seattle and Phoenix were the best of the rest with Seattle led by Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, and Jack Sikma and Phoenix by Paul Westphal, Walter Davis, Truck Robinson, and Alvin Adams . . . still. Marques Johnson and the Bucks, Otis Birdsong and the Kings were the only two other teams over .500.

Other players of note, Gervin led the league in scoring, Sven Nater in rebounding, Michael Ray Richardson in assists, steals, and turnovers. Box score composite leaders included Cornbread Maxwell and Moses Malone in Win Shares.

POY
1. Kareem -- most talented, arguably best box score, won title, not a hard vote
2. Erving -- another super talent on a super team
3. Bird -- rookie who led huge Boston turnaround
4. Magic Johnson -- I've talked a lot about how Kareem couldn't get the team to jell, well, rookie Magic is widely credited with pulling Kareem out of his shell and putting life and energy into a Lakers team that had been the most talented in the league but not played like it.
5. Gus Williams -- could be a few different names here but I'll go with Gus.

[ShaqAttac]

KAREEM

MVP, wins chip, dominated everyone, great O and great D

BIRD

mega impact, coulda been #1 but chokes in playoffs. his numbers meh and good args made that some of his stats fake but impact is impact

DOCTOR J
cooks bird to make final. Takes Cap and Magic to 6 and finishes 2nd in MVP

LANIER
GREAT D and good O carrying a team that sucks when he ain't there

MAGIC
maybe not all that in the rs but went crazy in the final and turned lakers from playoff team to only losing 4 gms. Imma be voting him 1 soon

[penbeast0]

Others posters say that Lanier's D was competent, I tend to be more sceptical since his defenses in Detroit during his prime were bad except for 74.

In Milwaukee, he played less minutes and Don Nelson frequently platooned him with a defensive specialist like Harvey Catchings which implies that his defense was less than stellar. Of course, in Milwaukee the reason he was playing less was knee injuries were limiting his mobility so that's not good evidence of his defense during his prime in Detroit.

[AEnigma]

Lanier’s defensive impact signals have been thoroughly litigated over the years, and I have never seen you offer much of a response to any of it. Where that leaves him all-time, I do not really know, but in a binary of “good / not good,” he was generally good from 1974 on.

For discussing Lanier in this year specifically, will just stick to this:

Only the Pacific Division champion Lakers (23-6) had a better record [than the Bucks] after the [1980] All-Star break.

It was then that the Bucks got Center Bob Lanier, trading Kent Benson and their 1980 first-round draft pick to Detroit, and Lanier proved to be the anchor that stopped the team's drifting. With the 6'11" 250-pounder on court, Milwaukee has demonstrated that it can compete with the best—even world champion Seattle, its probable opponent in the Western Conference semifinals. After Lanier arrived, the Bucks closed with a 20-6 rush, and the losses were by a total of only 16 points.

Nelson says Milwaukee could have won 62 games if Lanier had been with the team from the start, which the big fellow would have welcomed. Over the years, during the good times—the Pistons won 52 games in 1973-74—and the more recent bad ones, Lanier was Detroit's workhorse, a 22.8 career scorer and 11.9 rebounder. With the Bucks he isn't expected to carry the team on his broad back. "I don't have the emotional burden," he says. "Here I help on defense, set picks and pass the ball, things I do well anyway. It makes life easier. My playing time has gone down but the Ws are up."

"I'm happy for him," says Dave Bing, Lanier's former teammate. "It gives him a chance to go out a winner. He would have died in Detroit." Bing was a candidate for the Pistons' coaching job when Dick Vitale was fired earlier this season, and Lanier supported his candidacy, but Richie Adubato was given the position. It was the straw that broke Lanier's back. He told management he wanted out.

The deal with Milwaukee would have been made six weeks earlier except that Lanier broke the little finger on his left hand, and while recuperating he worried about his reputation as a loser who was injury prone. He previously had had two knee operations, a broken right hand, a bad toe, a sore back and a chronic shoulder problem. Lanier, who is from Buffalo, also fretted because Kent Benson, for whom it was rumored he would be traded, was Milwaukee's kind of guy: a hard-working, diligent Midwesterner. At the All-Star Game, Lanier approached Marques Johnson and asked him how the Bucks would view him. "Come on aboard," Johnson said.

With Lanier aboard, the floor looks a little bigger and less congested to Marques. Says Buckner, "Before, we would go to our guns down the stretch, and Marques was being forced so far from the basket that everything was long distance." Johnson points out, "When we take the floor now, you can just see the respect in the opposing center's eyes."

Lanier's importance was demonstrated in his very first game with the Bucks on Feb. 6. That night, Brian Winters made a game-ending 20-foot jump shot for a 111-109 win over Cleveland. Later Winters explained how he had gotten free: "Everybody was going to Bob as if he were a magnet." And at first Lanier thought Winters had missed; he was so conditioned to losing he had forgotten all about game-winning shots.

When Lanier joined up, Milwaukee trailed Kansas City by five games; it won 11 of its next 13. On March 16 the Bucks beat the Kings 128-121 and took the division lead for good. They had defeated Seattle twice, including a two-point victory in The Kingdome. The Bucks began calling Lanier "Coach" in deference to his age, 31, and stature. Because there weren't so many hands in their faces anymore, they began shooting better; at the All-Star break Milwaukee was shooting 47%; since then it has been 51%.

By the start of last season it was thought that all Milwaukee needed to make a run at the championship was a dominating center. That shortcoming was remedied right after last season's All-Star break when the Bucks traded Kent Benson and their 1980 first-round draft choice to the Pistons for Lanier. Milwaukee was 29-27 at the time, but with Lanier they went 20-6 for the remainder of the regular season before losing a tense seven-game playoff series to defending champion Seattle. Without Lanier, Detroit won two of its last 28 games.

[Narigo]

1. Kareem Abdul Jabbar- Once again is the best player in the league. Probably should have been finals MVP.

2. Julius Erving- Has his best season in the NBA so far and leads Phily to the finals

3. Magic Johnson- His arrival transforms the Lakers to a championship contender with his offensive impact and he had a excellent postseason as a rookie

4. Larry Bird- Like Magic, transforms the Celtics into championship contender. His inability to get to the free throw line had a negative effect on his efficiency in the playoffs

5. Moses Malone

[ceoofkobefans]

Sorry I haven’t been voting, was dealing with **** sucks I missed the 60s but I’ll try to start consistently voting now that were in the 3pt era

POY ballot

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

He’s still the best offensive player in the league and a top tier defender. Kareem is at the end of his peak here for me not too much to say here but he was the MVP and FMVP for a reason

2. Julius Erving

He’s still a great all around player atp and is a top 3 scorer in the league having a career resurgence with improved playmaking in his late 20s. Had a good playoff run as well and I feel like 2 is solid for him as a solid mvp caliber guy

3. Larry Bird

Yea yea he’s got the crazy WOWY **** but I’m less worried about that and more with how polished he came in right away as a rookie (which makes sense he was alr 23 as a rookie) he’s immediately a top 5 playmaker in the league and was actually a solid defender as a rookie. Wasn’t great in the playoffs which is a trend we’ll see for most of his career but I think he’s still a fringe mvp level guy which is good enough for a top 3-5 spot in the 80s

4. Moses Malone

Now yes he’s a terrible defender but he’s arguably a top 3 scorer in the league and easily the best defender in the league and was an elite floor raiser that could retain his performance in the playoffs and he gets about as much impact as a player can get without providing much value as a playmaker or defender

5. George Gervin

Another all time scorer that can’t defend for **** but man the iceman was nice. He gives you more playmaking and passing than Moses does but he also isn’t giving you the rebounding that Moses does and Moses I feel like can work better around better teammates and they’re similar floor raisers so I give him the edge here

HM: Marquese Johnson

OPOY

1. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
2. Julius Erving
3. Moses Malone
HM: George Gervin

DPOY
1. Dennis Johnson
2. Bobby Jones
3. Tree Rollins
HM: Cedric Maxwell

[One_and_Done]

Not up to me, but don't the rules explicitly prevent re-entry at this point? We're up to thread 30.

[AEnigma]

Not up to me, but don't the rules explicitly prevent re-entry at this point? We're up to thread 30.

No, just brand new entry, and CEO joined the project at the start.

Admittedly I had intended to take a stricter position with activity levels once someone joined, but that was when it looked like we had thirty interested people rather than the reality of ten consistently interested people and maybe ten more sporadically interested people.

[ceoofkobefans]

Not up to me, but don't the rules explicitly prevent re-entry at this point? We're up to thread 30.

I been here since the start Brodie I just stopped voting

[ardee]

PoY

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: The only reason anyone ever questions this is because he missed the literal last game of the season. Not good enough a reason for me, this is as open and shut as like say 2016 LeBron for instance.

2. Julius Erving: seems like he had finally fully adjusted to the NBA, definitely his peak season. MVP runner-up, very good on both ends, all-around menace.

3. Larry Bird: I honestly think it's quite clear with him and Magic. Larry was pretty consistently better by a small but clear margin until '86, after which the tide shifted heavily in Magic's favor (enough to give him the edge all-time). This trend started in their rookie year, Larry's impact was ridiculous in being the driving force behind a 30 win jump.

4. Magic Johnson: still an ATG rookie season, and also had arguably a top 3 single game performance of all time.

5. Moses Malone: kind of the default pick. Other options were Marques and Gervin, honestly none of the three played on great teams, Moses is just the one I'd trust the most in the Playoffs.

OPoY

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Magic Johnson
3. Larry Bird

DPoY

1. Caldwell Jones
2. Sam Lacey
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

[B-Mitch 30]

Since this is my first voting post, I think I should go over my criteria and what I look at. Unlike a lot of people here, I rely on box score stats, though I acknowledge they don’t capture the full picture of a player’s contributions. Offense-wise, this is less of a problem, but with defense, I try to supplement it by looking at how the player’s team performed overall in that regard. For offense, I tend to emphasize high volume scoring efficiency over other stuff. As a result, I dislike bad free throw shooters, so don’t expect Shaq to be as highly rated as objectively as he likely should be when we reach the 90’s. With all that said, I’ll now place my votes for each player and give my reasoning.

Offensive Player of the Year

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Out of all of Kareem’s post-merger seasons, this one has to be his crowning achievement. At an age where he probably should have been declining, and with the three-point line creating more opportunities for perimeter players to match big men’s efficiency, Kareem still obliterated the competition. He was 2nd in effective field goal percentage (eFG), and above average from the free throw line, while making the 17th most field goal attempts per game in the league. Combined with excellent passing as a center, and his usual rebounding, and there was clearly no player better than him this season, as he led the Lakers to a Finals victory.

2. Larry Bird

Larry certainly made an impact this year, helping turn an old and bad Celtics team into one of the best in the league. Few players have been as great at every aspect of the game as him, especially shooting, as he was one of only three players to reach over 40% from behind the line this year. In the playoffs, Bird did have a tough loss to the Sixers, but I’m still giving him the edge over Dr. J thanks to his three-point shooting likely creating better spacing.

3. Julius Erving

Doctor J may not have had Kareem’s efficiency or Bird’s shooting, but the man was still good at both, while scoring the 3rd most points in the NBA. He also had slightly more assists per possession than Bird or Kareem, while coming tantalizingly close to beating the Lakers for the championship.

Defensive Player of the Year

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Kareem wasn’t quite as good on defense as he was earlier in the decade, but I think he was still the best. He led the NBA in blocks for the last time, and was 5th in defensive rebounds. The Lakers also had the 7th best eFG defense, while committing the fewest fouls per field goal attempt.

2. Julius Erving

As good as the Lakers were, the Sixers were by far the best defensive team, being 1st in eFG, and outpacing the Lakers in turnovers, while still committing very few fouls. The Doctor seems to have been the catalyst for this, being in the top 10 of steals and blocks, while averaging over 7 rebounds a game.

3. Tree Rollins

After the Sixers, the Hawks had probably the best defense in the league. Despite committing the most fouls per field goal attempt, the Hawks won 50 games, thanks to having the 2nd best eFG and 2nd most turnovers. Rollins was clearly the best defender on the team, being 3rd in blocks and 17th in defensive rebounds.

Player of the Year

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Kareem is here for the reasons discussed above. Just about flawless from the Captain, outside of his freak injury in the Finals.

2. Julius Erving

There’s an argument for Bird here, but I think Doctor J’s defense and playoff defeat of the Celtics is enough to edge him out.

3. Larry Bird

However, Bird was still excellent and probably the best shooter in the league, while also leading one of the NBA’s best defensive teams.

4. Paul Westphal

Westphal didn’t come up during the offensive players section, but he was certainly close. Paul was one of the best passers in the league, while averaging nearly 22 points per game on great efficiency for a 55 win Suns team.

5. Marques Johnson

Johnson didn’t have absurd numbers in any particular category, but he was efficient, decent at passing, and good at rebounding, for a 49 win Bucks team.

[OhayoKD]

2. Larry Bird

Larry certainly made an impact this year, helping turn an old and bad Celtics team into one of the best in the league. Few players have been as great at every aspect of the game as him, especially shooting, as he was one of only three players to reach over 40% from behind the line this year. In the playoffs, Bird did have a tough loss to the Sixers, but I’m still giving him the edge over Dr. J thanks to his three-point shooting likely creating better spacing..

Doubtful:
[url]https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=114336565#p114336565[/url]

For Bird's 3-point shooting to create spacing, defenders would actually have to defend Bird when he shot 3's.

[IlikeSHAIguys]

1 - Kareem
2- Julius Erving
3 - Larry Bird
4 - Magic Johnson
5 - Moses Malone


Most people are putting Kareem #1 and I guess I'll vote that way too. Lakers dominate with Kareem putting up nice stats that get alot nicer in the playoffs. Magic probably deserves a lot of credit too but I'll go with the guy who we've voted DPOY and also averages 33/13/3 in the finals over a rookie right now.

Really cool turnaround and all but Bird doesn't seem to play that good in the playoffs. It would be cool if someone could talk about his game more because his stats don't really look like they should be winning so much and when i see him I'm never really blown away. Most of us probably didn't see much 70's or whatever but since we're talking players people have seen alot of it would be nice to get some eyetest.

Moses is kind of an unknown to me but he won 3 mvp's and went fo, fo, fo so I'll take him. I was thinking Gervin but wooooooo when you do it like that the spurs look pretty lame in the playoffs.

Offensive Player of the year

1 - Kareem
2- Julius Erving
3 - Larry Bird

Defensive Player of the year

1 - Bob Lanier
2 - Moses Malone
3 - Kareem