RealGM

What would be your top 10:
a) in the actual 1998
b) if all those players could be teleported in 2024
c) if those same players were born 26 years later
How different would those lists be?
I am thinking about it and I have no idea, I suspect Grant Hill would be my biggest raiser, though.

Shaq was likely the best player in 1998. Probably would be the best of the 1998 batch today though I could see duncan translating better

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:What would be your top 10:
a) in the actual 1998
b) if all those players could be teleported in 2024
c) if those same players were born 26 years later
How different would those lists be?
I am thinking about it and I have no idea, I suspect Grant Hill would be my biggest raiser, though.

How much do you think Hill's almost complete lack of a reliable outside shot would limit him in today's game?

a)
1. Jordan
2. Malone
3. Robinson
4. Duncan
5. Shaq
6. Payton
7. Hill
8. Pippen
9. Hardaway
10. Rice

Rich Michmond wrote:

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:What would be your top 10:
a) in the actual 1998
b) if all those players could be teleported in 2024
c) if those same players were born 26 years later
How different would those lists be?
I am thinking about it and I have no idea, I suspect Grant Hill would be my biggest raiser, though.

How much do you think Hill's almost complete lack of a reliable outside shot would limit him in today's game?

I think it would be more than balanced by his ability to attack the basket off the dribble and make reads.

In no particular order.

Jordan
Malone
Shaq
Duncan
Robinson
Hill
Payton
Pippen
Miller
Rice

LOL, how in the world is rookie Duncan (early 98 months) or even second year Duncan (last few months 98) better than Shaq?

MacGill wrote:LOL, how in the world is rookie Duncan (early 98 months) or even second year Duncan (last few months 98) better than Shaq?

in the last few months of 98 Duncan was not yet in his second year.
but in his second year, though, he was better than Shaq

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:

MacGill wrote:LOL, how in the world is rookie Duncan (early 98 months) or even second year Duncan (last few months 98) better than Shaq?

in the last few months of 98 Duncan was not yet in his second year.
but in his second year, though, he was better than Shaq

Wow, ok then. We'll certainly agree to disagree!

1) Jordan
2) Malone
3) Shaq
4) Duncan
5) Robinson
6) Hill
7) Payton
8) Pippen
9) Hardaway
10) Rice

MacGill wrote:LOL, how in the world is rookie Duncan (early 98 months) or even second year Duncan (last few months 98) better than Shaq?

2nd year Duncan was the best player in the NBA. Rookie Duncan wasn't quite as good, and like most rookies got better in year 2 after he had time to adapt to the NBA. That said Duncan was easily a top 5 player as a rookie.

MacGill wrote:LOL, how in the world is rookie Duncan (early 98 months) or even second year Duncan (last few months 98) better than Shaq?

Games played and better defensively.

I thought I remember one of those years Mutombo leading the league in real +/-, he deserves a mention for being included in the top 10 for sure.

MacGill wrote:LOL, how in the world is rookie Duncan (early 98 months) or even second year Duncan (last few months 98) better than Shaq?

I noticed this as well as it stood out as blatantly incorrect!

I'd done some in-year player rankings awhile back; here's the top 10 I had (note: I haven't looked at these again, these are the rankings I had at the time; NOTE2: missed games is factored into my rankings, hence Scottie Pippen's absense).

1. Michael Jordan
2. Karl Malone
3. Shaquille O’Neal
4. David Robinson
5. Tim Duncan
6. Gary Payton
7. Grant Hill
8. Tim Hardaway
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Reggie Miller
(11-16. Alonzo Mourning, Chris Webber, Arvydas Sabonis, Dikembe Mutombo, Detlef Schrempf, Scottie Pippen)


Guys whose value I see going UP if teleported to 2024: probably Reggie Miller tops the list, followed by Hardaway and Garnett. Sabonis, too, imo.
Guys who lose value, imo: Shaq (his general disinterest in defending in space, less interior-oriented offense); Jordan a little (less mid-range attack), maybe Dikembe a little.

I could see guards like Hardaway and Payton becoming even more effective (modern shooting emphasis, pnr play with less hand-checking and more open lanes) if born 26 years later.

You could go Antonio McDyess over KG for '98. Comparable regular season production. Comparable postseason play too but McDyess should get the nod going up vs Duncan & Robinson. And the Suns won 56 games.

Rich Michmond wrote:How much do you think Hill's almost complete lack of a reliable outside shot would limit him in today's game?

98 was more of an outlier for him. He generally shot quite well on the long 2.

SHAQ32 wrote:You could go Antonio McDyess over KG for '98. Comparable regular season production.

Hmm.....I'm not really seeing that. McDyess had notably better shooting efficiency, but otherwise it looks pretty solidly in KG's favour:

Per game:
KG: 18.5 ppg @ 52.7% TS/9.6 rpg/4.2 apg/1.7 spg/1.8 bpg/2.3 topg [7.76% mTOV%]/2.7 fpg
AM: 15.1 PPG @ 57.1% TS/7.6 rpg/1.3 apg/1.2 spg/1.7 bpg/1.8 topg [9.56% mTOV%]/3.6 fpg

To summarize: KG is providing +3.4 pts, +2.0 reb, +2.9 ast......and all at the cost of just +0.5 tov [significantly better overall economy] and -0.9 FEWER fouls.

McDyess has the edge in shooting efficiency [which translates to around +0.6 pts value added per game, basically] as the only thing to off-set these sizable edges. Doesn't feel too close to me.


Advanced and impact metrics
KG: 20.4 PER, .143 WS/48, +4.2 BPM, +5.63 PI RAPM [+2.55 NPI]
AM: 20.3 PER, .185 WS/48, +2.1 BPM, -0.36 PI RAPM [+0.47 NPI]

The per-miunute box-based metrics make them look somewhat comparable, until we consider that this is in 30.1 mpg for McDyess, but in 39.3 mpg for Garnett.
And then the [non-box] impact signals are not remotely close.

SHAQ32 wrote:Comparable postseason play too but McDyess should get the nod going up vs Duncan & Robinson.

I can live with this statement (KG did have a slumped performance), though we're talking about 4 and 5-game samples, respectively. We're also only referring to the box-based indicators (the RAPM's above include [heavier-weighted] playoff signals, fwiw).

But again: comparable [one series] playoff runs, but with the rs not being close at all, imo.


idk, I'm willing to consider that I underrated McDyess for this year, but I see him as merely a higher end role player whereas I view KG as a fringe top-10 player in the league (I had Antonio at #47 for this year).