RealGM

Two of the more underrated guards of all time in my opinion. Both renowned for their perimeter defense. Who do you think was better at their respective peaks? I give a slight edge to DJ.

Not close.

You can argue all day as to who was the better on-ball man defender - both were great. But look at the first decade of each player's career and you'll notice that:

- D.J was twice the rebounder, both offensively and defensively

- D.J had the much higher steal rate

- D.J. was 5 times the shot blocker

I give a slight edge to Dumars on offense (even though D.J. was the much better offensive rebounder), but the overall peak defense isn't close imho. Dumars was tough on defense, but Dennis Johnson (especially Seattle D.J.) is arguably the greatest SG defender ever.

You really had to watch peak D.J. in the late 70s to fully appreciate how outstanding his defense was. Or watch some of the Sonics/Bullets finals games from 77-78 or 78-79 on youtube.

kcktiny wrote:Not close.

You can argue all day as to who was the better on-ball man defender - both were great. But look at the first decade of each player's career and you'll notice that:

- D.J was twice the rebounder, both offensively and defensively

- D.J had the much higher steal rate

- D.J. was 5 times the shot blocker

I give a slight edge to Dumars on offense (even though D.J. was the much better offensive rebounder), but the overall peak defense isn't close imho. Dumars was tough on defense, but Dennis Johnson (especially Seattle D.J.) is arguably the greatest SG defender ever.

You really had to watch peak D.J. in the late 70s to fully appreciate how outstanding his defense was. Or watch some of the Sonics/Bullets finals games from 77-78 or 78-79 on youtube.

Great points. I agree on all accounts. I think DJ was at his best his first couple seasons in Phoenix. There he was kind of a hybrid of his Sonics and Celtics days. Still had the elite athleticism he had in Seattle and started to grow into the more cerebral point guard role that he ultimately played in Boston.

kcktiny wrote:Not close.

You can argue all day as to who was the better on-ball man defender - both were great. But look at the first decade of each player's career and you'll notice that:

- D.J was twice the rebounder, both offensively and defensively

- D.J had the much higher steal rate

- D.J. was 5 times the shot blocker

I give a slight edge to Dumars on offense (even though D.J. was the much better offensive rebounder), but the overall peak defense isn't close imho. Dumars was tough on defense, but Dennis Johnson (especially Seattle D.J.) is arguably the greatest SG defender ever.

You really had to watch peak D.J. in the late 70s to fully appreciate how outstanding his defense was. Or watch some of the Sonics/Bullets finals games from 77-78 or 78-79 on youtube.

Great points. Dumars is one of my favorite players of all time, but I was too young to have seen peak DJ. Interesting about his defense. You have him over or at least on the same tier as Moncrief or MJ as a defender? How was he off-ball?

I was too young to have seen peak DJ. Interesting about his defense. You have him over or at least on the same tier as Moncrief or MJ as a defender? How was he off-ball?

Over Moncrief and Jordan? No. That is the pantheon of great defensive SGs.

On the same level as those two? Sonics/Suns D.J. yes. Celtics D.J not quite but close (he was all-defensive 1st team in 1986-87 as a 32 year old).

You have to remember the times. By the time Dennis Johnson came along in the late 70s the best defensive guard we had seen was either Walt Frazier or Jerry West, maybe Jerry Sloan. After the mid-70s there wasn't really a dominant defensive guard, especially at SG. Until D.J.

From 1976-77 to 1979-80 Seattle was the league's best defensive team (just 98.1 pts/100poss allowed), and Johnson was their acknowledged best defender. Watch some of the Sonics Finals games from 1977-78 and 1978-79 on youtube and you'll hear Brent Musburger slather him with non-stop praise for his defense.