RealGM

What if current Luka replaced Nash on the 2005-2010 Suns. Would they have won a title?

I voted zero. D'Antoni's system just wasn't built for championships. As they say, offense puts butts in the seats, defense wins championships.

AStark1993 wrote:I voted zero. D'Antoni's system just wasn't built for championships. As they say, offense puts butts in the seats, defense wins championships.

This... isn't really the way things work. The Suns were good enough on D to win. If they hadn't been screwed by the refs in 2007, they'd have a ring, almost assuredly. They didn't, so they are rated accordingly, but the idea that they couldn't is somewhat odd and foolish. And there wasn't anyone in the East who could have stopped them at the time.

tsherkin wrote:

AStark1993 wrote:I voted zero. D'Antoni's system just wasn't built for championships. As they say, offense puts butts in the seats, defense wins championships.

This... isn't really the way things work. The Suns were good enough on D to win. If they hadn't been screwed by the refs in 2007, they'd have a ring, almost assuredly. They didn't, so they are rated accordingly, but the idea that they couldn't is somewhat odd and foolish. And there wasn't anyone in the East who could have stopped them at the time.

Shoulda coulda woulda. None of that counts in reality.

AStark1993 wrote:Shoulda coulda woulda. None of that counts in reality.

It really does, though. You're making a false inference about the potential for success, much in the same way as Chuck said a jumpshooting team couldn't win a title. The Suns clearly had the level of ability prerequisite to win a title. They made the Conference Finals and won 2 games WITHOUT AMARE in 06, and went 6 with the Spurs despite the suspensions the year after. They were clearly capable of pulling it off. Again, they didn't, and history will remember that.

But your initial premise was that Phoenix's system was inherently flawed and that was what would keep them from winning a title. Luka on those Suns would have been an interesting animal, for sure. He isn't a hyper-efficient guy in today's environment, but 05-07, the league-average TS% topped out at 54.1%, and he's been no worse than 57.1% since starting to score 27+ ppg, while also producing volume playmaking. If Luka was playing like Luka in that time frame, he'd have been murdering the league. That would definitely have created a tonal difference for the Suns, on top of their extant ability.

Luka is a genius but I think he struggles to win 1. D'Antoni and Amare were a terrible defensive combo. The competition was also pretty good, with Duncan, D-Wade and Kobe teams.

Luka offers more scoring, worse shooting, worse facilitation and probably equivalent defence.

Don't see what he offers that the Suns needed more of.

They’d prob win 1 or 2. Luka is way better than Nash (who had the best supporting cast for multiple years). If you switched full careers…he’d also win in Dallas.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

rrravenred wrote:Luka offers more scoring, worse shooting, worse facilitation and probably equivalent defence.

Don't see what he offers that the Suns needed more of.

Definitely not equivalent defense. He's at worst neutral defensively, and, when he puts in effort, a legit positive. Rebounds much better too and offers more positional versatility

tsherkin wrote:

AStark1993 wrote:I voted zero. D'Antoni's system just wasn't built for championships. As they say, offense puts butts in the seats, defense wins championships.

This... isn't really the way things work. The Suns were good enough on D to win. If they hadn't been screwed by the refs in 2007, they'd have a ring, almost assuredly. They didn't, so they are rated accordingly, but the idea that they couldn't is somewhat odd and foolish. And there wasn't anyone in the East who could have stopped them at the time.

I liked this, except for the 07 stuff. Suns had every chance to win in game 6 and were stomped. The penalties were also entirely consistent with the application of the rules at that time.

One_and_Done wrote:. Suns had every chance to win in game 6 and were stomped.

Marion and Barbosa definitely came up short in that one. Amare and Nash were huge in the fourth, but Duncan was pretty beastly in general. I don't mind that they lost to the Spurs in general, obviously San Antonio was amazing. But the tone and momentum of that series would have been very different if those suspensions had not happened.

Anyway, setting that aside, Luka is a better scorer than Nash. I am a huge Nash fan, but even he admits he didn't shoot enough. And he was 6'2 or 6'3. Would have been a lot harder for San Antonio to bully someone Luka's size. And NAsh did get beat up pretty badly in that series. So that would have been interesting.

They still had a short rotation, and Amare still blew chunks on defense. There isn't a guarantee that they'd have won, but they had the ability to do it that year with the roster they had. It was possible. With Luka, I think they'd have had a much better chance. He certainly has shown us that he's fine with handling absurd usage. And he's been a 30+ ppg scorer in three straight postseasons prior to 2024. And was at 28.9 ppg this past postseason. Hell, if he hadn't sucked ass at the foul line in 2021, we might be regularly talking about that 37 ppg series he had, you know? Anyway.

It's an interesting what-if. D'Antoni was certainly fine with pull-up 3s and running (at least relative to the time). And Luka is also a good rebounder, which is another boon for a Suns team that ran to the small side.