Which team would win in a 7-game series?

[flaco]

We've been running a fantasy draft in the "Trades and Transactions Games" board. https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=340&t=2416924

Was wondering whether you could help us out declaring the winner. Please ensure you give a rationale for your vote; votes with no explanation will not be counted.

First team to 5 votes wins. If no team has 5 votes after 48 hours, first team to 4 votes wins provided that the series isn't already tied at 4-4. Here are the two Finalists:


Team Snakebites

PG: Damian Lillard 17-18 (17.1-20)
All NBA First

SG: Derrick White 22-23 (8.1- 10.0)
All Defensive 2nd

SF: Paul George 13-14 (14.1-17)
All NBA 3rd, All Defensive First

PF: Kevin Garnett 07-08 (10-13.9)
All NBA First, DPOY, All Defensive First

C: Joel Embiid 22-23 (20.1 Plus)
MVP, All NBA First

B: Alex Caruso 22-23 (4.1-6.0)
All Defensive First

B: Herb Jones 23-24 (6.1-8.0)
All Defensive First

B: Chris Andersen 12-13 (3.0 and Below)



Rotation:

Lillard (37)/Caruso (11)
White (36)/Caruso (12)
George (38)/ Jones (20)
KG (34)/Jones (14)
Embiid (36)/KG (4)/Andersen (8)

My team at a fundamental level is built around a truly dominant front court of Embiid and KG, with terrific playmaking and spacing around them. Defensively, my team is full of All NBA Level Defenders, with 5 members of my team being All Defensive and a 6th (Embiid) receiving DPOY votes.

Embiid and Garnett are perfect complements to one another defensively, with Embiid dropping and protecting the rim and KG being highly mobile. In this matchup in particular KG is the best possible check to Dirk Nowitzki while Chandler allows Embiid to drop and protect the rim. In addition to this, I've also got prime Paul George and Herb Jones to nerf Jayson Tatum on defense, and have a pair of solid point of attack defenders in Derrick White and Alex Caruso to throw at Luka, who will also have to contend with my terrific rim protection. While LR's offense is potent, I think my team is in as good a position as any to make every point more difficult to get.

Offensively, we'll hunt for mismatches. All three of my perimeter starters are capable scorer/playmakers, which makes it harder to hide Luka Doncic. Dirk Nowitzki also makes LR somewhat vulnerable to the pick and roll, and KG will also take him one on one from time to time. Chandler is a decent check to Embiid, but he was also prone to quick fouls, particularly far from the basket. I think Embiid is the ideal matchup for him to get into foul trouble, and if he's off the court for extended times LR is at a considerable disadvantage defensively and on the glass. Broadly speaking I think Damian Lillard and Joel Embiid are terrific offensive complements to one another, and KG and PG exemplary third and fourth options. I've got capable playmaking at every starting position which makes my team extremely difficult to guard.

Overall, I think my team is just a touch more balanced offensively and defensively and this should be enough to carry the day here.

Team Larry_Russell

PG: Jrue Holiday (2023-24) 10
12.5ppg, 5.4rpg, 4.8apg, 1spg, 0.8bpg, 43% on 4.7-3pta
DOY-6, All defense 2nd

SG: Luka Doncic (2023-24) 23.6
34ppg, 9.2rpg, 9.8apg, 1.4spg, 0.5bpg, 38.2% on 10.6-3pta
MVP-3, WCFMVP, NBA-1, AS

SF: Jayson Tatum (2023-24) 19.3
27ppg, 8rpg, 5apg, 1spg, 0.6bpg, 37.5% on 8.2-3pta
MVP-6, NBA-1, AS, All Defense Votes Received

PF: Dirk Nowitzki (2010-11) 16.2
23ppg, 7rpg, 2.6apg, 0.5spg, 0.5bpg, 39.5% on 2.3-3pta
FMVP, MVP-6, NBA-2, AS

C: Tyson Chandler (2011-12) 5.7
11.3ppg, 10rpg, 1apg, 1spg, 1.5bpg
DPOY, NBA-3rd, All Defense 1st

SG: Ray Allen (2008-09) 13.2
18.2ppg, 3.5rpg, 2.8apg, 1spg, 41% on 6.2-3pta
AS, All NBA Votes received

SF: Josh Hart (2022-23) 6.8
9.8ppg, 7.8rpg, 3.8apg, 1.2spg, 37.2% on 2.2-3pta

C: Bo Outlaw (2006-07) 1.2
2ppg, 2.5apg, 0.5apg, 0.5spg



PG: Holiday (34) / Luka (14)
SG: Luka (14) / Allen (34)
SF: Tatum (26) / Luka (10) / Hart (12)
PF: Nowitzki (36) / Tatum (12)
C: Chandler (38) / Outlaw (8) / Dirk (2)

Matchups, we are going to go straight up here:

Jrue will defend Damian
Luka will defend White
Tatum will defend George
Dirk will defend Garnett
Chandler will defend Embiid

I think my defense holds up well here:

Jrue is as good of a cover for Dame as anyone can be with footspeed and size to stay in front. Jrue has historically been a Lillard stopper in his career.

Luka gets to hide on White. I am a huge white fan, but he isnt going to take over offensively as this is not his offensive breakout year.

Tatum will cover George, and that feels good on my end. Tatum is a long, strong, active defender

On the outside looking in, Dirk covering Garnett looks weak, but this is Boston Garnett, not looking to score Minny Garnett. Looking at the lone game that Garnett played against Dirk in 2007-08 (I am using a better defensive season of Dirk than his 2007-08 season) Garnett only shot 32% from the floor on way to 20 points. Dirk is so tall and long and Garnett is mostly a midrange shooter.

DPOY WInner Chandler on Embiid is a good cover. Chandler is quick, and elite lateral movement and plays solid positional defense. Exactly the type of defender that Embiid tends to struggle more against.

Offensively I believe my team is on a higher level.

Luka/Dirk/Tatum are 3 HIGH level efficient scorers.

Luka was giving 34,9 and 10 while carrying his team all the way to the finals and finsihing top 5 in MVP

Tatum was giving 27, 8 and 5 while doing everything and leading his team in all categories in the playoffs/finals and finishing top 6 in MVP

Dirk turned into an unstoppable animal in the finals toppling the heavily favored Heatles almost singlehandedly and finishing top 6 in MVP

The other pieces fit perfectly with Chandler being a PROVEN fit beside Dirk winning a title, and being the exact type of center that benefits from Luka's playmaking as a bigger Lively. and Jrue, who is a perfect glue guy who is ELITE at the corner 3.

Also off the bench I am superior there with Ray Allen being my 6th man. A allstar with allnba votes received while scoring a very efficient 18+ ppg and Hart who is giving a bit of everything that might be needed while playing some excellent defense.

TL/DR
I have a very solid defense with Jrue at the point and DPOY winner Chandler at the rim and Tatum on the wing, Hart and Outlaw off the bench
I have a superpowered offense with Luka/Tatum/Dirk and Ray Allen off the bench.

[Djoker]

I would go with Team 2.

Team 1 is super nice on D but doesn't really have a good playmaker. Lillard is more an SG playing PG. Apart from Embiid, there's also not too much scoring there which is a problem that would be exacerbated by the lack of playmaking previously mentioned. That team is also more injury prone with Embiid and to a lesser extent George not being reliable. The only concern with Team 2 is a couple of weaker defenders in Luka and Dirk but the other three starters can more than cover their weaknesses.

[OhayoKD]

If we are assuming health team 1 likely. That's a pretty big assumption though.

Embid is however the best player here, when healthy and team 1 carries a notable talent advantage even if you think he isn't(Luka). Team 2 fits a teensy bit better but don't think it's enough for having Jrue and Chandler in your lineup

[MadNESS]

If we are assuming health team 1 likely. That's a pretty big assumption though.

Embid is however the best player here, when healthy and team 1 carries a notable talent advantage even if you think he isn't(Luka). Team 2 fits a teensy bit better but don't think it's enough for having Jrue and Chandler in your lineup

Yes everyone is healthy. These are their peak seasons for most part.

[AEnigma]

If we are assuming health team 1 likely. That's a pretty big assumption though.

Embid is however the best player here, when healthy and team 1 carries a notable talent advantage even if you think he isn't(Luka). Team 2 fits a teensy bit better but don't think it's enough for having Jrue and Chandler in your lineup

Yes everyone is healthy. These are their peak seasons for most part.

2023 Embiid was not healthy in the postseason. He arguably never has been. That is why this is such a difficult question.

Personally, I think until Embiid proves otherwise, the assumption should be that he cannot replicate his regular season play in the postseason. That does not mean his team automatically loses, but it is a fair bit worse than having regular season Embiid.

[flaco]

For the purposes of this game, we assume that all players are healthy as long as they played at least 50% of the games during the regular season. Injury history is not a factor. Should have clarified it in the OP. My bad.

[DCasey91]

I like team 2. Ray Allen off the bench is the huge kicker for me. Ray + Luka or Tatum, Dirk its easy offence. Better spacing too.

Dame/George/Garnett/Embiid doesn't scream fantastic synergy on that end when they all like the ball in hand. With the other team there's 2 folks (Dirk was low for a superstar)

George performs better as a solo, Garnett + Embiid inside you'd rather have Garnett on the elbow which leaves Embiid scratching his butt.

There's 4 shot hunters when they have the ball and 3 likes to get inside.

I find Dame to be overrated. Isn't a table setter.

And no Embiid is not the best player here.

But yeah Ray puts it over the top along with being a better fit. That team can run 4 out all day long. Also Jrue is the best catch all, can go 1-3 defensively and blitz doubles on the 4/5.

I'd give it a comfortable 4-2 victory. There's a big difference between Dirk inside/out play and Embiid halting offensive structure. Giving Luka and Tatum Dirk and Ray is too much, also did you have a chance of getting M Gasol?

[Larry_Russell]

I like team 2. Ray Allen off the bench is the huge kicker for me. Ray + Luka or Tatum, Dirk its easy offence. Better spacing too.

Dame/George/Garnett/Embiid doesn't scream fantastic synergy on that end when they all like the ball in hand. With the other team there's 2 folks (Dirk was low for a superstar)

George performs better as a solo, Garnett + Embiid inside you'd rather have Garnett on the elbow which leaves Embiid scratching his butt.

There's 4 shot hunters when they have the ball and 3 likes to get inside.

I find Dame to be overrated. Isn't a table setter.

And no Embiid is not the best player here.

But yeah Ray puts it over the top along with being a better fit. That team can run 4 out all day long. Also Jrue is the best catch all, can go 1-3 defensively and blitz doubles on the 4/5.

I'd give it a comfortable 4-2 victory. There's a big difference between Dirk inside/out play and Embiid halting offensive structure. Giving Luka and Tatum Dirk and Ray is too much, also did you have a chance of getting M Gasol?

This is a well thought out response.

You should totally come check out the drafting games we play.

[Larry_Russell]

I would go with Team 2.

Team 1 is super nice on D but doesn't really have a good playmaker. Lillard is more an SG playing PG. Apart from Embiid, there's also not too much scoring there which is a problem that would be exacerbated by the lack of playmaking previously mentioned. That team is also more injury prone with Embiid and to a lesser extent George not being reliable. The only concern with Team 2 is a couple of weaker defenders in Luka and Dirk but the other three starters can more than cover their weaknesses.

You should pop into the trades and transactions board and check out the games we play over there

[Ol Roy]

I vote Team 2.

With Team 1, I have some concerns. No high-level facilitator. Lillard and George are streaky shooters. I'm not confident in Embiid's ability to share the load with multiple other stars. White and Garnett, of course, fit well on any team.

Team 2 has a facilitator in Luka who is just on another level. Jrue and Ray (a HUGE rotational bonus) are perfect shooting compliments to him. Tatum is the kind of all-purpose glue forward every team needs. Then you add in Dirk for more spacing and highly efficient scoring, plus a lob threat in Chandler.

I don't think the defensive differences are enough to swing it either way.

[DCasey91]

I like team 2. Ray Allen off the bench is the huge kicker for me. Ray + Luka or Tatum, Dirk its easy offence. Better spacing too.

Dame/George/Garnett/Embiid doesn't scream fantastic synergy on that end when they all like the ball in hand. With the other team there's 2 folks (Dirk was low for a superstar)

George performs better as a solo, Garnett + Embiid inside you'd rather have Garnett on the elbow which leaves Embiid scratching his butt.

There's 4 shot hunters when they have the ball and 3 likes to get inside.

I find Dame to be overrated. Isn't a table setter.

And no Embiid is not the best player here.

But yeah Ray puts it over the top along with being a better fit. That team can run 4 out all day long. Also Jrue is the best catch all, can go 1-3 defensively and blitz doubles on the 4/5.

I'd give it a comfortable 4-2 victory. There's a big difference between Dirk inside/out play and Embiid halting offensive structure. Giving Luka and Tatum Dirk and Ray is too much, also did you have a chance of getting M Gasol?

This is a well thought out response.

You should totally come check out the drafting games we play.

Thanks man will do, shotout to the person who drafted this team well done. Can't say it enough Ray Allen is highway robbery off the bench.

[Larry_Russell]

I like team 2. Ray Allen off the bench is the huge kicker for me. Ray + Luka or Tatum, Dirk its easy offence. Better spacing too.

Dame/George/Garnett/Embiid doesn't scream fantastic synergy on that end when they all like the ball in hand. With the other team there's 2 folks (Dirk was low for a superstar)

George performs better as a solo, Garnett + Embiid inside you'd rather have Garnett on the elbow which leaves Embiid scratching his butt.

There's 4 shot hunters when they have the ball and 3 likes to get inside.

I find Dame to be overrated. Isn't a table setter.

And no Embiid is not the best player here.

But yeah Ray puts it over the top along with being a better fit. That team can run 4 out all day long. Also Jrue is the best catch all, can go 1-3 defensively and blitz doubles on the 4/5.

I'd give it a comfortable 4-2 victory. There's a big difference between Dirk inside/out play and Embiid halting offensive structure. Giving Luka and Tatum Dirk and Ray is too much, also did you have a chance of getting M Gasol?

This is a well thought out response.

You should totally come check out the drafting games we play.

Thanks man will do, shotout to the person who drafted this team well done. Can't say it enough Ray Allen is highway robbery off the bench.

Yeah, that drafter is pretty smart sometimes. Lol

[durantbird]

Vote Team 1.

Allen is a different caliber bench guy but it should be noted that Chandler as a lower tier offensive weapon mitigates that, not sure he's more useful than Herb for example. So top 5 are overall close.

I think biggest mismatch is Dirk needing to guard Garnett. Overall better defensive identity for team Snake give him the win.

[Larry_Russell]

Vote Team 1.

Allen is a different caliber bench guy but it should be noted that Chandler as a lower tier offensive weapon mitigates that, not sure he's more useful than Herb for example. So top 5 are overall close.

I think biggest mismatch is Dirk needing to guard Garnett. Overall better defensive identity for team Snake give him the win.

As I pointed out earlier that isnt that big of a mismatch.

For starters Garnett was not an offensive force in 2007-08. He averaged only 19ppg and only topped 30 points in a game twice on the season against Detroit and Phoenix (31 points and 30 points)

In his single game agaisnt Dirk he only shot 7/22 at 32% for 20 points. In that Gaame dirk had 22 points and 19 boards.

Garnett is not going to score 50 on Dirk and sway the game offensively.

In the season for chosen for Dirk he averaged 27 and 6 against DPOY Runner up Garnett and garnett averaged only 17 and 10 against Dirk

Dirk is fine with defending garnett

[Dr Positivity]

Vote for team 2

I really like Chandler and Holiday as 4th/5th starters beside Doncic/Tatum/Dirk and Allen is icing on the cake, also too reliant on Embiid for me.

[mikejames23]

That should be team 1... the defense is strong, and KG covers Embiid's problems really well. Dame time closes games. George will play his two way game. Luka recently didn't perform against this type of defense, I believe he drops this matchup. Embiid should easily go off on Chandler...

The biggest threat to Team 1 is probably all the talent that's there between Dirk/Tatum/Luka.... But I don't believe it's good enough to overcome KG with a supporting cast like this... this is like a dream come true for him compared to all his terrible Minnesota times.

[Ancalagon]

Team 2 4-0.

[OhayoKD]

Team 2 4-0.

not that it changes much, but my vote would be team 1 with health garunteed

[flaco]

Team 2 4-0.

not that it changes much, but my vote would be team 1 with health garunteed

Could you please elaborate? Votes with no explanation are not counted.

Edit: Sorry, just realized Ohayo has already posted his reasoning.

Larry_Russell leads 4-3. First team to 5 votes wins. If no team has 5 votes after 48 hours, first team to 4 votes wins provided that the series isn't already tied at 4-4. 

[OhayoKD]

Team 2 4-0.

not that it changes much, but my vote would be team 1 with health garunteed

Could you please elaborate? Votes with no explanation are not counted.

Larry_Russell leads 4-3. First team to 5 votes wins. If no team has 5 votes after 48 hours, first team to 4 votes wins provided that the series isn't already tied at 4-4. 

Does the explanation on my first post here not suffice?