https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=115401403#p115401403
In 86 we looked at two big-orientated teams sharing four elite defensive bigs. For 94 we’re going to look at a game where one team’s big defensive hot-shots were non-bigs; and another team who had to play 20 possessions without their version of Hakeem.
It’s also worth noting the 5 defenders here combined for 2 blocks. A pretty big debate in these forums is whether non-block accumulating defenders, and non-bigs, and non-block accumulating non-bigs can rack up significant impact and value inside.
I think this game offers us a prime opportunity to answer all 3 queries.
Here’s what we’re looking for
Spoiler:
So I can kill 4 5 birds at once,I'm going to track the first 80 possessions(40 each) from a game all 4 5 played. Game 7 of the NYK-CHI ECSF. I will ascribe “paint-protectors” or “co-primary paint protectors” (PP) for each possession and make notes on how these avoidances end up working out. Since I am tracking 5 players I am also going to add a live tally (in parenthesis) of how many IA’s has been counted for each player so I don’t lose count.
There is a great deal more grey area here than with the creation stuff I think. Vetting and perhaps some discussion on what should be counted or not counted is welcomed. Additionally, while I am not counting everyone’s PP’s, I am ascribing a player or multiple one for each possession so I welcome interested parties to tally those excluded themselves.
All said, let’s begin:
Possession 1 - New York - 7:38
Ewing secures his first IA (1) with Pippen opting to swing it away despite Ewing being on an island. Ewing spends most of the possession in the paint, for most of the possession is closest to the basket, and deters a pass inside. (Ewing - 1 PP)
Possession 1 - Chicago - 8:00
Cartwright spends the possession near the basket and a chunk of it on Ewing. Ewing bumps him off, bumps off his help and kicks out for a semi-contested jumper. Usage =/ efficacy. (Cartwright - 1 PP)
Possession 2 - New York - 8:20
Ewing spends the possession near the basket and moves to prevent Ewing from dunking only to foul. (Ewing - 2 PP)
Possession 2 - Chicago - 9:27
Cartwright stays under the basket and is on Ewing. Miscommunication from New York creates an unforced turnover (Cartwright - 2 PP)
Possession 3 - New York - 9:40
Charles Smith is near the basket for most of the possession and holds off Pippen in the low-post successfully
Possession 3 - Chicago - 10:00
Grant starts the possession the closest to the basket and forces Harper to halt his drive and pass it off. As this is a fastbreak it doesn’t count as an IA. (Grant - 1 PP)
Possession 4 - New York - 10:11
Bulls break with Armstrong hitting a pull-up. Oakley gets closest to the basket and is behind the defense the whole time. (Oakley - 1 PP)
Possession 4 - Chicago - 10:20
Cartwright is on Ewing and near the basket. (Cartwright - 3 PP)
Possession 5 - New York - 10:30
Oakley starts closest to the basket and walls off Armstrong who chucks and misses. Oakley also helps secure the board. (Oakley - 2 PP).
Possession 5 - Chicago - 10:45
Armstrong gives up a foul trying to draw a charge as the last guy remaining as New York breaks. On the inbound Pippen spends the most time in the paint, deterring a potential pass to Oakley from Ewing, annoying oakley from the weakside as Grant stonewalls him, and securing the rebound with Ewing lurking. Loses the ball shortly after but again, this measures usage, not efficacy. (Pippen - 1 PP)
Possession 6 - New York - 11:30
Ewing spends the most time under the basket, holds off an attacker in the mid-post at the cost of a foul, and then affects a shot at the basket strong-side. (Ewing - 3 PP)
(Ewing leaves the game)
Possession 6 - Chicago - 12:16
Pippen spends the bulk of the possession battling Oakley for position inside. Eventually loses it but again, this measures usage not efficacy. Grant and Cartwright are both there to cover when Pippen eventually gets muscled off only for Cartwright to foul. (Pippen - 2 PP)
Possession 7 - New York - 13:15
Oakley is closest to the basket and tries and fails to stop Pippen at the rim. (Oakley - 3 PP)
Possession 7 - Chicago - 14:37
Longley stuffs Harper and helps secure the board.
Possession 8 - New York - 14:40
Oakley spends the possession near the basket, Intercepts Pippen’s drive and then provides weakside help to Herb Williams as he fails to prevent a dunk. (Oakley - 4 PP)
Possession 8 - Chicago - 14:50
Pippen and Grant spend tmost of the possession in the paint. While Grant is generally closer to the basket while Pippen is near, to no real effect, when Smith catches and dunks it. (Pippen - 3 PP, Grant - 2 PP)
Possession 9 - Rockets - 15:37
Smith hangs near Pippen under the basket for most of the possession and then takes a charge as Longley tries to take it to the hole.
Possession 9 - Chicago - 16:20
Longley and Pippen spend the bulk of the possession in the paint tracking Smith and Oakley. Longley spends more time on the bigs(and a brief bit near both) while Pippen spends more time in the paint and deters a inside pass towards Smith after the inbound. Calling them co-primaries here. (Pippen - 4 PP)
Possession 10 - New York - 17:00
Herb Williams is the closest to the basket and spends most of the possession in the paint. Not really used as Pippen ends the possession early with a jumper, but that’s not what’s being measured.
Possession 10 - Chicago - 17:07
Pippen races back retreating to the paint first along with Armstrong and then running to the mid-post towards Oakley, preventing any potential drives, contesting his jumper, and securing a freebie board. (Pippen - 5 PP)
Possession 11 - New York - 17:20
Oakley spends the most time in the paint and shuffles to intercept Meyers only to get blindsided by Grant for a dunk (Oakley - 5 PP)
Possession 12 - Chicago - 18:23
Grant is the first Bull to get an IA (1) with Harper passing swinging it to the opposite side. Grant spends almost all of the possession right by the basket containing Smith who he seals off as Pippen fights Oakley for a rebound (he loses). (Grant - 3 PP)
Possession 12 - New York - 18:43
Oakley spends the most time in the paint but Williams secures the board with a Bull lurking. I’ll call them co-primaries. (Oakley - 6 PP)
Possession 12 - Chicago - 19:18
Grant switches with Pippen for “watching Smith right under the basket” duties and then challenges him strong side, pressuring him into a missed hook-shot. Pippen starts the possession watching Smith, switches to watch Oakley at the key and then comes back to prevent Herb Williams from snatching an offensive board, tipping it to Myers. (Grant - 4 PP, Pippen - 6 PP)
Possession 13 - New York - 19:25
Oakley has Grant near the basket and then rotates to prevent a drive in case Pippen’s pass is received (it isn’t) (Oakley - 7 PP)
Possession 14 - Chicago - 19:35
Pete Myers by default really. Only player staying near someone near the basket the whole possession.
Possession 15 - New York - 19:40
Herb Williams is nearest to the basket for most of the possession and gets cooked by grant for a basket.
Possession 15 - Chicago - 20:00
Wennington is closest to the basket as the possession is interrupted early with a technical foul. After the inbound. Pippen roams the paint helping deter a drive from Harper, getting back to the basket to fight two knicks players for a board. Said players fail to recover quickly enough to contest a Wennington board. Wennington is closest to the basket for most of the possession. Co-primaries for me. (Pippen - 7 PP)
Possession 16 - New York - 21:05
Herb Williams is nearest to the basket and is ran into by Wennington helping create the turnover.
Possession 16 - Chicago - 21:30
Pippen gets back early and deters what likely would have been a layup attempt from John Starks. Scot Williams secures the rebound over Herb Williams with help. (Pippen - 8 PP)
Possession 17 - New York - 21:40
Herb WIlliams is near the basket, stone-walls Scot Williams, and is then backdoored by Livington.
Possession 17 - Chicago - 22:50
Wennington spends the possession near the basket, briefly ventures out and then fouls Harper trying to stop his drive.
Possession 18 - New York - 24:00
Oakley switches with Williams to deal with a lurker near the basket and then intercepts Pippen’s pass attempt. (Oakley - 8 PP)
Possession 18 - Chicago - 24:04
Wennington cuts off Mason at the basket and swats the bakk out of bound when someone tries to give it to him. Scot-Williams stops Oakley at the basket.
Possession 19 - New York - 24:47
Oakley is near the basket for most of the possession and comes to meet Pippen when he’s about to shoot from the mid-post. Pippen is fouled (Oakley - 9 PP)
Possession 19 - Chicago - 26:45
Bill Wennington I guess.
Possession 20 - New York - 27:02
Oakley is nearest the basket, spends the most time in the paint, and comes out to meet Pippen knocking the ball out of bounds. (Oakley - 10 PP)
Possession 20 - Chicago - 27:55
Pippen spends the possession containing Oakley at the basket and does the most to prevent him from getting a board. (Pippen - 9 PP)
Possession 21 - New York - 28:07
Herb Williams is near the basket and contains Scott Williams near the basket
Possession 21 - Chicago - 28:16
Scott Williams fights a big at the basket for most of the possession.
Possession 22 - New York - 28:30
Williams contains Wennington near the basket.
Possession 22 - Chicago 28:42
Wennington is closest to the basket, and walls off Williams when he gets the ball.
Possession 23 - New York - 29:41
Oakley spends the most time in the paint and near the basket before moving to stop any potential rebounding attempt (seems like he would have failed). (Oakley - 11 PP)
Possession 23 - Chicago - 30:08
Wennington tries to stop a drive, fouls.
Possession 24 - New York - 32:10
Anthony Mason fights Scott Williams near the basket for pretty much the whole possession
Possession 25 - New York - 32:52
Oakley and Herb Williams do about the same thing so I guess I’ll give them both PP’s. (Oakley - 12 PP)
(Ewing comes back)
Possession 25 - Chicago - 34:05
Pippen spends the most time in the paint and near the basket and is closest to secure any potential rebound sealing off Oakley the whole while. (Pippen - 10 PP)
Possession 26 - New York - 34:19
Ewing rotates back to the basket and is the biggest obstacle for Kukoc to overcome at the basket. Is blindsided and doesn’t really affect the shot but we are looking at usage, not efficacy. He also secures the board over Scott Williams. (Ewing - 4 PP)
Possession 26 - Chicago - 34:29
Pippen spends the most time near the basket and in the paint. (Pippen - 11 PP)
Possession 27 - New York - 34:30
Ewing is slow to get back and gets outran by Kukoc but he pressures Andreas to pass it off and stays in Kukoc’s vicinity throughout. Bad defense but again, usage, not efficacy. (Ewing - 5 PP)
Possession 27 - Chicago - 34:45
Pippen gets his first IA (1) with the ball being swung to the side with 3 defenders as opposed to his. Pippen spends the possession watching Oakley in the paint who he jumps over to secure a rebound. (Pippen - 12 PP)
Possession 28 - New York - 35:00
Mason spends the most time in the paint and near the basket and is blocked off so Kukoc can get off an open jumper.
Possession 28 - Chicago - 35:11
Pippen spends the most time in the paint and near the basket, watching Oakley, and fails to do anything when Oakley gets the ball and scores. Cartwright spends the possession on Ewing and fails to do anything when Ewing posts up. (Pippen - 13 PP, Cartwright - 3 PP)
Possession 29 - New York - 35:53
Ewing spends the possession in the paint and near the basket rotating to deny Williams when he gets free of Oakley, preventing Williams from securing a board at the basket and then being the closest, while doing nothing, as Pippen dunks on him. (Ewing - 6 PP)
Possession 29 - Chicago - 36:10
Pippen starts the possession near the basket and then comes to meet Davis as he drives… and is scored over not even so much as attempting to jump (Pippen - 14 PP)
Possession 30 - New York - 36:27
Oakley is the clear primary before the foul. Ewing is the primary after with Oakley as a clear secondary. I’ll give the PP to both (Ewing - 7 PP, Oakley - 13 PP)
Possession 30 - Chicago - 37:54
Cartwright spends the possession tracking Ewing in the paint. Ewing tries to get free and Cartwright catches up. (Cartwright - 4 PP)
Possession 31 - New York - 38:25
Ewing is watching Cartwright near the basket for the possession. Unable to affect anything to affect Kukoc driving in and hitting a jumper from up close. (Ewing - 7 PP)
Possession 31 - Chicago - 38:38
Cartwright watches Ewing and Ewing decides to pass it off when he gets the ball. (Cartwright - 5 PP)
Possession 32 - New York - 38:47
After a stretch of bad/neutral defensive possessions coming back, Ewing has his best of this game. Of relevance to this tracking: Ewing gets his 2nd IA (2) with Pippen deciding to swing it around as opposed to driving on Pat. Ewing ventures out to block a shot from Cartwright. Cartwright then tries to take it to the hole only to get bodied by Pat into a turnover. (Ewing - 8 PP)
Possession 32 - Chicago - 39:41
Pippen finds himself on an island at the basket as he tries to contain Oakley. He competes for but fails to secure a board off Ewing’s first shot-attempt. (Pippen - 15 PP)
Possession 33 - New York - 40:20
Oakley spends the most time in the paint and at the basket and intercepts a drive from Scott Williams picking up a foul. (Oakley - 14 PP)
Possession 33 - Chicago - 41:20
Cartwright marks Ewing to start the possession, deters a drive from Harper, walls off Mason, and bodies up against Ewing offering enough resistance for Pippen to tip it away. (Cartwight - 5 PP)
Possession 34 - New York - 41:50
Ewing spends the most time in the paint and near the basket and meets Pippen near the basket forcing the ball out of bounds. (Ewing - 9 PP)
Possession 34 - Chicago - 43:15
Nothing rim-related really happens this possession but when in doubt, I tend to defer to the center guarding Ewing in the paint (Cartwright - 6 PP)
Possession 35 - New York - 43:20
Mason spends the possession in the paint and then stops Pippen strong side.
Possession 35 - Chicago - 43:56
Grant spends the most time in the paint and near the basket keeping watch over Smith. Also offers a little help on Mason. Not sure it actually affected anything. (Grant - 4 PP)
Possession 36 - New York - 44:07
Ewing spends the most time near the basket and halts a drive. (Ewing - 10 PP)
Possession 36 - Chicago - 44:22
Grant spends most of the possession in the paint and near the basket. (Grant - 5 PP)
Possession 37 - New York - 45:07
Ewing spends the most time in the paint and near the basket and seals off Grant for a board (Ewing - 11 PP)
Possession 37 - Chicago - 45:53
Kukoc spends the possession watching Oakley near the basket challenging him for the rebound allowing Armstrong to grab a freebie.
Possession 38 - New York - 46:50
Ewing and Oakley spend a similar amount of thep possession near the paint and near the basket and not much else happens. They can split this. (Ewing - 12 PP, Oakley 15-PP)
Possession 38 - Chicago - 47:52
Grant spends the most time near the basket and is the guy who gets duped for a putback. (Grant - 6 PP)
Possession 39 - New York - 48:00
Ewing secures another IA (3) as the ball-handler decides to throw it to the side with 3 New York defenders rather than attack the side with Patrick Ewing. Ewing also moves to cover Mason at the rim in case Pippen gets past him. Impressive shot-contest too. (Ewing - 13 PP)
Possession 39 - Chicago - 48:46
Horace Grant spends the most time in the paint and near the basket. Doesn’t really do anything but still (Grant - 7 PP)
Possession 40 - New York - 48:57
PIppen barrels into John Starks to end the half. Ref says it’s out on Starks.
Possession 40 - Chicago - 50:40
Pippen spends the possession at the basket preventing Oakley from trying to secure a rebound, challenging Smith on a dunk attempt, and securing the Board himself with two Knickerbockers lurking. (Pippen - 15 PP)
Tally and Analysis
Let’s start with rim-load distribution (PPs) among the 5 defenders tracked
Spoiler:
Ewing missing nearly half the possessions allowed Oakley and Pippen to shine(or at least try to). Both were fairly clearly their team’s lead-rim protectors in the absence of an all-time defensive big. These countables do not consider effectiveness and on that front All 3’s effectiveness varied. It’s also not a direct measure of volume(Ewing far and away the standout there) as players cannot rack up multiple PP’s per possession and one can rack up a PP doing pretty much nothing (See: Grant).
That said, I don’t think they were uniquely inconsistent on that front though on a per PP basis I would probably say Cartwright contributed more than Pippen did, primarily dealing with Ewing whenever he was on the court.
Grant’s relatively low usage was surprising. I had a hunch he was ineffective in alot of possessions here, but I didn’t think his usage would be this low.
IA’s probably need a revamp of sorts but it makes sense Ewing would be the one offenses decide they’d take their chances dealing with more bodies vs. FWIW Ewing and Oakley had multiple “this was almost an IA”. Considering being looser with how it’s defined (maybe count transition too) considering how infrequently they seem to occur. Will keep this current system for a bit just to test how frequency varies based on roster construction/help-proficiency.
Answering the broader questions posited at the top…
Yes, thus far what’s been observed iit does seem that wings can offer significant value as paint-protectors in their own right. Pippen/Grant led the Bulls in usage in 1991, Oakley led the Bulls in usage in 1988, and here Pippen was a pretty clear standout. Signals do not suggest Wings should just be grouped as “perimiter defenders” along with guards
No, high block averages are not a prerequisite for significant rim-value. Ewing, Pippen, Grant, Oakley, and Cartwright managed 2 blocks combined this game.
If this is representative I would also add this tracking suggests Pippen was Chicago’s primary paint-guy which, ontop of being their defensive floor-general (at least per Jackson), and their most involved and active perimeter defender gives some credence to him being Chicago’s anchor as opposed to the Bulls simply being Phil with an ensemble (I’d say the data supports the latter). Whether it really is representative is fair to ask with these samples, though I’ll note Pippen was tied for Grant when this was done for 1991 and ahead when this was done for 88).
I will also note, for what it’s worth, I was alot more impressed by Hakeem in the previous tracking than anyone here. Hakeem had more high-value plays as a rim-protector imo(especially when sampson went out), and didn’t have anything resembling the srong of possessions Ewing did right after leaving the game.
All said, I’ll end this by copy and pasting the caveats I noted from the last tracking:
Spoiler:
Think I’ll look at 97 Hakeem next. Just how much did he fall off defensively? Will try to create a more comprehensive defensive system which incorporates mistakes and effectiveness and perimeter actions.
