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How does Brown compare to Eddie Jones? Which versions of Brown will you take ahead of prime Eddie Jones 00'?

durantbird wrote:How does Brown compare to Eddie Jones? Which versions of Brown will you take ahead of prime Eddie Jones 00'?

Brown is more classically athletic and has used that to become a solid volume scorer when his poor dribbling doesn't get in the way, as well as to make spectacular plays at times.

Brown is also a product of the 3-point dominated era and as a result can be argued to be a more adept volume 3-point shooter than Jones despite being a worse shooter generally.

Jones is better at basically everything else. He had a far better feel for the game and understood how to add value next to other talent.

I would not take any version of Brown over prime Jones. I'd take Jones, and were he born in the same year as Brown, I think he'd make the Celtics better if he were in Brown's place.

Brown is better and it's not close.

One_and_Done wrote:Brown is better and it's not close.

Better at what?

70sFan wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Brown is better and it's not close.

Better at what?

Basketball.

One_and_Done wrote:Brown is better and it's not close.

I think it's at least close. But can you specify which versions of Brown are you taking ahead of prime Jones?

One_and_Done wrote:

70sFan wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Brown is better and it's not close.

Better at what?

Basketball.

Very strong argument indeed.

durantbird wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Brown is better and it's not close.

I think it's at least close. But can you specify which versions of Brown are you taking ahead of prime Jones?

The one who was the best player on a title team last year.

One_and_Done wrote:

durantbird wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Brown is better and it's not close.

I think it's at least close. But can you specify which versions of Brown are you taking ahead of prime Jones?

The one who was the best player on a title team last year.

Other versions are below Jones? That's my question. When do you feel like he surpassed him? See my OP

One_and_Done wrote:

durantbird wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Brown is better and it's not close.

I think it's at least close. But can you specify which versions of Brown are you taking ahead of prime Jones?

The one who was the best player on a title team last year.

I couldn't disagree more with the idea that Brown was the best player on that team. I get that he won the playoff awards so it makes sense people see Brown that way, but if I'm building a contender I want Tatum, White, or Holiday before I want Brown.

Would I take Tatum over Jones? Absolutely.
White or Holiday? Quite possibly.
Brown? If just about the luckiest guy in the NBA.

Doctor MJ wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:

durantbird wrote:I think it's at least close. But can you specify which versions of Brown are you taking ahead of prime Jones?

The one who was the best player on a title team last year.

I couldn't disagree more with the idea that Brown was the best player on that team. I get that he won the playoff awards so it makes sense people see Brown that way, but if I'm building a contender I want Tatum, White, or Holiday before I want Brown.

Would I take Tatum over Jones? Absolutely.
White or Holiday? Quite possibly.
Brown? If just about the luckiest guy in the NBA.

Brown was their best player in the playoffs, and for the season as a whole, because defense is a thing. If I was building a team for RS success I'd take Tatum, but Brown was the most impactful player on both their finals runs and there's no getting away from that. Brown will not rank over Tatum in all-time lists, nor should he, but it's offensive to compare him to Eddie Jones.

I'm a fan of both! Live long and prosper!

One_and_Done wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:The one who was the best player on a title team last year.

I couldn't disagree more with the idea that Brown was the best player on that team. I get that he won the playoff awards so it makes sense people see Brown that way, but if I'm building a contender I want Tatum, White, or Holiday before I want Brown.

Would I take Tatum over Jones? Absolutely.
White or Holiday? Quite possibly.
Brown? If just about the luckiest guy in the NBA.

Brown was their best player in the playoffs, and for the season as a whole, because defense is a thing. If I was building a team for RS success I'd take Tatum, but Brown was the most impactful player on both their finals runs and there's no getting away from that. Brown will not rank over Tatum in all-time lists, nor should he, but it's offensive to compare him to Eddie Jones.

Defense is a thing yes, but I'd rank Brown as the worst of the Celtic defenders I've mentioned. He's certainly the least aware of the bunch on both sides of the ball.

Edit: Let me add on the Jones front that clearly most of what you're doing here - like always - is siding with the guy who came later in time without giving nitty, gritty basketball reasons for why one guy is clearly better. Perfectly fine to recognize progress in the game and to have that in mind as you do the comparison, and so choosing Brown over Jones isn't crazy at all...but what is it exactly makes Brown better than Jones other than the fact he's playing later?

I'd say you should be looking to explain this stuff in detail before you start making statements about what's "offensive", because in general, the offensive thing is trashing others opinions without really giving explanations.

I disagree. Watching Brown chase Luka around in the finals was impressive. I'll grant you he's no Brad Miller though.

One_and_Done wrote:I disagree. Watching Brown chase Luka around in the finals was impressive. I'll grant you he's no Brad Miller though.

- Fine for you to disagree.

- Brown deserves credit for his ability to focus in on guarding one guy. He's not unique among the core Celtic players in being able to do this of course - they put Tatum on Durant after all, and Holiday is an absolute legend at this - but what Brown did with Luka was certainly valuable.

- You bringing up Miller is clearly you trying to bring up something off-topic to discredit me rather than just elaborating further on the actual basketball relevant to this discussion. If you can talk more basketball, you should. People will listen to you more.

One_and_Done wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:The one who was the best player on a title team last year.

I couldn't disagree more with the idea that Brown was the best player on that team. I get that he won the playoff awards so it makes sense people see Brown that way, but if I'm building a contender I want Tatum, White, or Holiday before I want Brown.

Would I take Tatum over Jones? Absolutely.
White or Holiday? Quite possibly.
Brown? If just about the luckiest guy in the NBA.

Brown was their best player in the playoffs, and for the season as a whole, because defense is a thing. If I was building a team for RS success I'd take Tatum, but Brown was the most impactful player on both their finals runs and there's no getting away from that. Brown will not rank over Tatum in all-time lists, nor should he, but it's offensive to compare him to Eddie Jones.

By the adv numbers, I can see where Doctor MJ is coming from.

Doctor MJ wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:

durantbird wrote:I think it's at least close. But can you specify which versions of Brown are you taking ahead of prime Jones?

The one who was the best player on a title team last year.

I couldn't disagree more with the idea that Brown was the best player on that team. I get that he won the playoff awards so it makes sense people see Brown that way, but if I'm building a contender I want Tatum, White, or Holiday before I want Brown.

Would I take Tatum over Jones? Absolutely.
White or Holiday? Quite possibly.
Brown? If just about the luckiest guy in the NBA.

Shouts to Jaylen. I'll say I don't think Brown or White ever proved to be better than Jaylen. Both of these guys generally languished in mediocrity before coming to the celtics. Jrue holiday is overrated and was very very suboptimal whenever called upon to be No. 2 for giannis. It just so happens that now he gets to be like the most overqualified 5th option of all time. But jaylen is better than these guys.

But i do think Jaylen is probably overrated in the grand scheme of things. Bad passer, bad ballhandler. His occasional bad playoff series get overlooked (see him averaging 19 on 19 shots against the heat and a semi hampered jimmy butler in 2023). Solid volume scorer on average efficiency. Beats up on teams where he's always got the better squad and he's never doubled.

If he were on the pistons with cade cunningham they would miss the playoffs

This is Jaylen quite comfortably. A team could never count on Eddie Jones and his annual disappearing act come playoff time

My read is that Eddie jones is more of a Derrick white than JB. JB is a much better scorer.

Also whoever said Eddie is classically more athletic…they are comparable athletes while JB is stronger and slightly taller.

Brown being a better defender than Tatum is quite a take, I must admit.

Brown had a nice postseason last year but in grand scheme of things he was probably 4th best player on the Celtics... and that's because Horford was getting caught with age.