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Which player was better at their peak - Sidney Moncrief or Jrue Holiday? Two Milwaukee Bucks legends...who you got?

Peak Moncrief was an All Nba 1st teamer and fringe Mvp candidate. He was on another level from Jrue mainly b/c of offense. Jrue was always way below league average efficiency before a few seasons when he was the 3rd option to Giannis and Khris. He got to play w/ Ad too..........Sid was able to lead top 10 offenses as the best player on his team never having played w/ anyone close to Ad or Giannis. Jrue would never have been capable of that b/c of scoring. His teams were bottom 10 offenses when he had the keys as the man. Sid was better on defense too but it's a debate offense isn't close at all

Overall Jrue is closer to a Mo Cheeks than a Sid the Squid

Imho peak Sidney Moncrief is the second best peak SG ever, next to Jordan. Holiday not so as a PG, and Moncrief the better peak defending SG than Holiday was a defending PG.

Most would pick peak Kobe, DWade, maybe Drexler, Jerry West, and those would all be great choices as second best peak SGs that were also great defenders. But peak Sid was possibly the greatest defending SG ever, and was also really good on offense. Lead Milwaukee in scoring over 5 seasons (1981-82 to 1985-86) when they were also the best defensive team in the league. Like quite a few players injuries took away what could have likely been a long HOF career.

Holiday is pretty overrated man. When he was a No. 2 option he was *bad*, as a No. 1 option, he would never make the playoffs in a competitive conference. He's seen as this big winner, and i like his defense. But even in his run as the No. 3 option in the finals, he had two series where he shot 36% from the field. If Kyrie and or Harden were healthy, bucks don't get that chip. Literally every threat to them was neutralized by injury. Like even now, i was watching the Celtics the other day and like ... no one was even trying to guard him. The celtics have so so many other people to worry about what Jrue did. So now he's like a 5th option who plays great defense. At his best he was a, "get you to the second round and lose type of No. 2 option. This really shouldn't even be a convo. Like we value ostensibly great archetypes. But lets look at CJ McCollum. a 21/4/4 ppg on solid efficiency (for a self-creator) for over a decade. Helped beat pre peak Jokic and Murray. Beat slightly past prime Russ and peak PG. Gave the warriors some scares for like a game or two. His biggest issue is that he's always been miscast as a No. 2 when he maybe would've been best as a third option on a tertiary contender. Slight positive in BPM in the playoffs in a role that overtaxed his talents (about a 1 bpm). He's a guy that can create and make midrange jumpers and three-pointers against tough defenses. He can pass a little bit, take care of the ball. Can step it up in big games. What's it look like if he's on a team with Giannis and there's a Middleton-level wing who covers up CJ's defensive weaknesses (in the way that Middleton made up for Jrue's offensive limitations)? Prime CJ would've done a lot better than Murray did last year, especially with a guy like Jokic. Really, they might have made it to the conference finals in 2021 if they had CJ.

Like idk. What even is his peak? Like what does a world where he's on a bad team the whole time look like? Yeah. Like idk man. Shout out to Jrue though.

Pelly24 wrote:Like what does a world where he's on a bad team the whole time look like?

I understand the concerns about Jrue as a primary or secondary offensive option but I don't think this part really matters. At least not to me. It's also not a realistic counterfactual.

kcktiny wrote:Imho peak Sidney Moncrief is the second best peak SG ever, next to Jordan. Holiday not so as a PG, and Moncrief the better peak defending SG than Holiday was a defending PG.

Most would pick peak Kobe, DWade, maybe Drexler, Jerry West, and those would all be great choices as second best peak SGs that were also great defenders. But peak Sid was possibly the greatest defending SG ever, and was also really good on offense. Lead Milwaukee in scoring over 5 seasons (1981-82 to 1985-86) when they were also the best defensive team in the league. Like quite a few players injuries took away what could have likely been a long HOF career.

That sounds outrageous tbh

Assuming Oscar, West, Magic, Curry, and maybe Harden are PGs, Sid has a good argument for top 5 if you ignore longevity. Putting him #2 is still a bit higher than I would rate him.