Where would Peak Dirk Nowitzki rank today?

[Matt15]

Where would peak Dirk rank in todays league?

[One_and_Done]

Top 5-10 range for sure.

[ShotCreator]

Probably #3 behind Shai, and Jokic.

If healthy, Luka is probably a bit better as well.

I think he's outright better than current Giannis.

And consistently more impactful than AD as well, although AD at his best defensively and offensively, which has been shown in the postseason, is legitimately prime KG or DUncan level, and I take that over Dirk pretty easily.

[DCasey91]

Thing is when has AD been on the back of 50+ win teams twice over? let alone year in year out like Dirk did for over a decade anchored elite offensive ones.

Dirk a damn monster in today's game. Definitely in contention for top 3 and Giannis imho is no sure thing especially with his previous post seasons and health.

Teams run double bigs. Harten, Allen, Lopez, Turner, Gobert, Eason+Thompson, Williams, Wemby, Horford I mean Dirk is like a top 3 all time easiest to build around player and it's definitely easier today with bigger more proficient guard players which is a gluttony, stretch and rim protection bigs. The team builds itself pretty much

[One_and_Done]

Probably #3 behind Shai, and Jokic.

If healthy, Luka is probably a bit better as well.

I think he's outright better than current Giannis.

And consistently more impactful than AD as well, although AD at his best defensively and offensively, which has been shown in the postseason, is legitimately prime KG or DUncan level, and I take that over Dirk pretty easily.

He's not better than Giannis.

[DraymondGold]

I mean Dirk is like a top 3 all time easiest to build around player

I’m a bit curious to hear more about this like. Top 3 all time? Just among stars or in general? Who are your other top easy to build around players, and what are you looking for when ranking players this way?

Of the top of my head, I’m not sure what makes Dirk clearly easier to build around than say… players like Bird, Garnett, Bill Russell, Jerry West, Durant, Jokic (offensively only). And if we’re talking about all NBA players and not just stars, Dirk also has to compete with good secondary players (eg 3 and D guys like Klay Thompson).

What is it you like about Dirk’s game that makes him easy to build around?

[DCasey91]

I mean Dirk is like a top 3 all time easiest to build around player

I’m a bit curious to hear more about this like. Top 3 all time? Just among stars or in general? Who are your other top easy to build around players, and what are you looking for when ranking players this way?

Of the top of my head, I’m not sure what makes Dirk clearly easier to build around than say… players like Bird, Garnett, Bill Russell, Jerry West, Durant, Jokic (offensively only). And if we’re talking about all NBA players and not just stars, Dirk also has to compete with good secondary players (eg 3 and D guys like Klay Thompson).

What is it you like about Dirk’s game that makes him easy to build around?

I look at basketball as 5vs5 pyramid concept with hyper min/maxing synergy through monopoly on off ball. Basically why a combo or a 3 part works and why does another completely miss the mark?

Dirk by defacto is easier to build than Russell (poor FT, no spacer, not a scorer), Garnett (no elite offensive trait which downs his own monopolization which what do you know he won by the role he should have been from day dot)

West is too far back to compare as guards are getting huge at the PG spot. And Durant is less structural than Dirk (honestly it's not even close imho when watching closely enough), more turnover, plays less as a big less of a rebounder. Don't care for alot of fancy when you can catch and fire always.

Bron, Bird, Dirk is my top 3 easiest build around btw. Why these 3?

Bron can fit into a crap ton of roles on both ends at all points during his prime and Bron ball which are numerous versions of it works.. extremely well. Capable scorers or inflation scoring is all time high and his best success came alongside 3 very different elite scorers. It's Bron you can do anything but you get the point. Capable scoring is not hard to find today.

Bird allows for a more free flowing exchange of usage (check his % of usage into Advanced stuff it's brilliant). Dumb low for a head snake. McHale played his best at his correct position (they also effortlessly did switching on D, DJ, Parish as well. I honestly believe Bird especially Peak Bird (very much a defensive + especially as a team guy) is a flawless player despite spotty playoff scoring. Hes death by a thousand cuts, more tradionational in that he gets the best out of everyone if everyone else plays where he should be playing and isn't positionally locked which is the case for Jokic.

Dirk offensively plays itself brilliantly. Low turnover, hyper efficient shots, lower end spectrum usage much like Bird, Both super quick decision makers. I do think they had it right with a defensive orientated PG and anchor rim protector when they won. Nash was diminishing returns, can you see what I'm getting at? Today it's easy Jrue + or Caruso + or heck Wolves Rubio would be awesome. Part of Durant's problem is that he should play more like Dirk and not the other way around.

Conclusion Clippers have failed, Suns have failed, I believe Bucks have failed at honestly very simple building exercises. Heck if the NBA looked into more game theory in the digital space (im seriously not joking hire a pro WOW or LOL player or back then chess GM I bet ya within a month they'll say this is crap that's crap wtf is this org smoking)

Look at Celtics, OKC, Cavs (though I don't rate Mitchell) on how it's done. Celtics committed highway robbery for an overrated defender in Smart whose smaller and at the worst possible time thought he was Steph Curry. Now they have a rug in Holiday that ties the room together between their star wings. Super simple stuff

Presti is legit what I just brought up he's playing 2k in real life. They say art imitates life this is true.

Nowadays less and less shreds of old farts are holding onto well back in my day... No I do not want Barkley to be the league leader in 3's thanks, it's always funny first they hate then eventually they join but they still suck at compartmentalizing very simple concepts.

Hopefully you get an idea of what I'm postulating. Sports are fundamentally a game and as such anything not optimal to best of knowledge is sub optimal and all games should always be min/maxed or broken apart or hard solved. Any of 3 is best practise.

Just quickly I've always wanted GSW to form a 4 square rolling screen around a broken player but the fact they never did is sad.

[tsherkin]

Jokic, Shai, and Giannis (at a minimum) are better. Doncic would normally be, but he's been very much disappointing this season relative to his previous seasons. He's in the neighborhood, though.

So I think something like top 5 probably makes sense.