Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 — Lebron James

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Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 — Lebron James 

Post#1 » by AEnigma » Sat Feb 1, 2025 1:02 am

General Project Discussion Thread

Ballots, Discussion, and Results from the Official Player of the Year voting in 2012.

In this thread we'll discuss and vote on the top 5 players and the top 3 offensive and defensive players of 2011-12.

Player of the Year (POY)(5) — most accomplished overall player of that season
Offensive Player of the Year (OPOY)(3) — most accomplished offensive player of that season
Defensive Player of the Year (DPOY)(3) — most accomplished defensive player of that season

Voting will close sometime after 20:00PM EST on Monday, February 3rd. I have no issue keeping it open so long as discussion is strong, but please try to vote within the first three days.

Valid ballots must provide an explanation for your choices that gives us a window into how you thought and why you came to the decisions you did. You can vote for any of the three awards — although they must be complete votes — but I will only tally votes for an award when there are at least five valid ballots submitted for it.

Remember, your votes must be based on THIS season. This is intended to give wide wiggle room for personal philosophies while still providing a boundary to make sure the award can be said to mean something. You can factor things like degree of difficulty as defined by you, but what you can't do is ignore how the player actually played on the floor this season in favor of what he might have done if only...

You may change your vote, but if you do, edit your original post rather than writing, "hey, ignore my last post, this is my real post until I change my mind again.” I similarly ask that ballots be kept in one post rather than making one post for Player of the Year, one post for Offensive Player of the Year, and/or one post for Defensive Player of the Year. If you want to provide your reasoning that way for the sake of discussion, fine, but please keep the official votes themselves in one aggregated post. Finally, for ease of tallying, I prefer for you to place your votes at the beginning of your balloting post, with some formatting that makes them stand out. I will not discount votes which fail to follow these requests, but I am certainly more likely to overlook them.

Contrarian votes can be and have been sincere, but they look a lot more sincere when you take the time to fully present your reasoning rather than transparently pretend nothing is amiss.
Doctor MJ wrote:Vote sincerely. Do not move a player down in your voting to give another player an advantage. I would encourage every voter to give some explanations while they do their voting - but particularly if you have a top 5 that deviates strongly with the norm and you haven't expressed your thoughts on it earlier in the thread. If I'm not satisfied, I may ask you for more of an explanation - and it may come to actually booting people out of the project.

The rules here are that you've got to use the same type of thinking for all 5 votes. I understand putting more thought into #1 than #5, but I don't want PJ Brown votes. Voters do Brown type votes to give a guy an honorable mention. Makes sense if people only care about who finishes 1st, but I've been clear that I want to measure more than that. I've been trying to encourage literal "honorable mentions" to serve that purpose, and I'd ask that people use that as the way they honor guys who did something special but who aren't actually a top 5 guy that year.

There is a significant difference between a properly justified and internally consistent contrarian vote, and a vote whose purpose is to undermine the project itself. Ballots which threaten to do the latter and derail project discussion via blatant vote manipulation are liable to be tossed. If it happens twice, the offending poster will be removed from the project.

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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#2 » by One_and_Done » Sat Feb 1, 2025 1:11 am

Well, this is going to be Lebron by a mile for me.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#3 » by jjgp111292 » Sat Feb 1, 2025 1:42 am

Another easy one.

The 2012 playoffs was probably the most invested I've ever been as an NBA fan. That **** aged me 15 years :lol: . It all comes together for Bron here - while the factors that prompted the original LeBron thread were definitely at hand, his refinements to his game made the drop in athleticism mostly moot.

Speaking of the refinements, that's always been a narrative that recently has come to scrutiny, rightfully so. The conventional wisdom has been Lebron had limitations, improved as a jumpshooter, yadda yadda and then he became a champion. But then...the 2012 playoffs was one of the worst shooting stretches of his career, with the finals being his dirt worst series from outside 10-feet. LeBron beat Oklahoma City by basically playing like the caricature of his game that MJ and Kobe nuthuggers have always insisted was reality, just going full LeBuldozer and getting to the rim whenever he felt like it.

But therein lies the improvemenet - I don't think any previous version of LeBron quite knew what to do as a scorer when his jumpshot went Anthony McLelland on him with defenses trying to steer him towards relying on it. Instead, this Bron picked OKC apart from the post, which opened up his playmaking too. LeBron finally broke through not by playing the quote-unquote "Right way" (that's really just adhering to what the Kobe/MJ afficiandos approve of) but by figuring out the best method of playing the game his way. And from here on out, only LeBron could really stop LeBron in the playoffs.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#4 » by AEnigma » Sat Feb 1, 2025 1:46 am

Defensive Player of the Year

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tyson Chandler
3. Marc Gasol


This bloc has been much more forgiving of Garnett’s missed time than I have been, but with only six missed games, that is not a particular disadvantage for Garnett anymore, and particularly not when he anchors the league’s best defence and nearly upsets the eventual champions in the conference finals.

There is too much of a defensive signal from Chandler leaving the Mavericks and joining the Knicks for me to ignore it, and Howard’s missed postseason leaves a void for Chandler to move up to second.

Marc was sixth in the league in minutes played and for the second consecutive year (or third consecutive series) anchors a potent postseason defence. Yes, he is better next year, but not by such a degree that we should be disregarding how much defensive value he was already providing to the Grizzlies.

Offensive Player of the Year

1. Lebron James
2. Chris Paul
3. Tony Parker


Excluding Nash for postseason absence again (like Dwight, he was not so above the pack that I will easily dismiss that lack of accomplishment), these are the league’s three best playmakers. Parker anchors the league’s top offence, but his minute load is relatively low and his second round struggles are nearly as bad as Paul’s, but without the injury excuse. Paul in turn plays two hundred more minutes and is a better scorer, passer, ballhandler, and shooter, and a bad four-game performance does not overwrite that when the point of comparison is also relatively lacklustre. And then Lebron is in true prime form; not a top five offensive season for him, but against this level of competition, he does not need to be, because no one else had a prayer of winning that Celtics series with the Heat as injured as they were.

Player of the Year

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
HM: Chris Paul


This is Lebron by about as expansive a distance as we have seen in at least a decade. This is nearing a fully realised Lebron: no hand or back injury, no reliance on “shooting variance” or whatever… His mental mastery is not quite at its peak yet, no, but he has learned from the failures of years past and had a couple of extra months to smooth out those flaws. Storms into the Finals behind one of the greatest games ever played, and finds only tepid resistance from a Finals opponent still going through its own growing pains. So long as his team is not too disadvantaged, he is giving you a better chance at a win than any other perimetre player ever has.

Not much to say about Durant. He earned (a ridiculous) second-place MVP finish prior to this year, but now he is firmly entrenched as the league’s #2. Second seed in the conference, second in MVP voting, second place in the postseason. Do that for a few years and you would probably develop an inferiority complex too.

Garnett had his best postseason since 2012. He rapidly faded out the following year, so tough to say whether it was the desperation of a player believing his time as a star was reaching its conclusion, knowing his team’s window was about to shut, or feeling like the extended offseason had left him with more energy to go all out. Some have even alleged it was because of exposure to a special rock. Whatever the reason, he found himself reinvigorated and came a game away from reaching the Finals with a favourable positional matchup against a much less experienced team. Great way to functionally cap off a star career.

I was and am quite a bit lower than 2012 voters were on what Paul “accomplished” this year: swept in the second round with only one single-digit loss while completely losing his shot (ooh, injury context, what else is new), against a team that lost (as was the perpetual case for Paul until 2018) 4-2 to the team that lost 4-1 in the NBA Finals. I understand people rewarding his overall regular season level of play, but for me his postseason means he is ultimately a functional after-thought. At least in 2009 he has the historic regular season; this year, it was a normal prime Paul season with a postseason flameout. And with Duncan being the best player in that second round series, leading a better team, I will never see Paul as more a defining figure for the season. More debatable is Kobe, and if Kobe had replicated his mediocre performance against the Mavericks last year, or against a worse version of this Thunder team in 2010, then he would be off the ballot. But ultimately I was quite impressed by his efforts this postseason, and to a degree beyond what I saw from Duncan against their common opponent, so he closes out his postseason career with a final top four finish from me.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#5 » by Special_Puppy » Sat Feb 1, 2025 3:16 am

I think its probably the case that CP3 was the 2nd player in the league this year, but the disasterclass against the Spurs is hard to overlook
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#6 » by Djoker » Sat Feb 1, 2025 4:22 am

This is a bit of a weak year. Lebron is the obvious #1. KD and CP3 in the next tier and locks to make the ballot too. Beyond that I kind of need to think about it. Kobe, Wade, KG, Duncan all in the running.

Special_Puppy wrote:I think its probably the case that CP3 was the 2nd player in the league this year, but the disasterclass against the Spurs is hard to overlook


Before someone brings up that he was injured in that series. He still underperformed...
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#7 » by trelos6 » Sat Feb 1, 2025 6:59 am

OPOY

1.Lebron James. 28.6 pp75 on +7.8 rTS%. Team rOrtg of +2. Top 7 playmaker in the league, very good passer. In the playoffs, increased scoring volume slightly, but efficiency dropped to +4.9 rTS%. Durant carried a big load and was the better pure scorer, but Lebron’s playmaking was far superior. Plus Game 6 in Boston, one of the best individual games I have ever seen played.

2.Kevin Durant. 28.1 pp75 on +8.3 rTS%. Team rOrtg of +5.2. Playoff scoring was 27, +10.5. Played fantastic vs Spurs and Heat in the big games.

3.Chris Paul. 22 pp75 on +5.4 rTS%. Team rOrtg of +3.9. Top 3 passer and playmaker. Wasn’t good vs Grizz, but horrible vs Spurs. All up, scoring dropped off and was only at league average shooting. I considered Griffin, but he didn’t have the passing chops he’d get in the coming seasons.


DPOY

1.Kevin Garnett. Defensive anchor on the best defensive team in the league.

2.Tyson Chandler. Anchored the strong Knicks defense.

3.Dwight Howard. The team wasn’t built for defense, but Howard was able to anchor the squad, last full season before the injury.


POY

1.Lebron James. In the offseason he worked with Hakeem Olajuwon on post moves, going into the 2012 season with a complete back-to-the-basket game. He also came into the season as a 36% three-point shooter, beginning to make a strength out of something that had long been a weakness. He was a force on both ends. +5.64 OPIPM, +1.39 DPIPM, +7.02 PIPM. 20.53 Wins Added.

2.Kevin Durant. Great scorer, who rose during the playoffs. +3.2 OPIPM, +0.12 DPIPM, +3.32 PIPM. 13.2 Wins Added.

3.Kevin Garnett. 20.3 pp75 on +2.3 rTS%. +1.29 OPIPM, +3.5 DPIPM. +4.8 PIPM. 12.96 Wins Added.

4.Chris Paul. +4.64 OPIPM, +0.02 DPIPM, +4.66 PIPM. 12.30 Wins Added.

5.Dwayne Wade. Narrowly edges out Dirk. 26.3 pp75 on +3.2 rTS%. Playoffs scoring dropped to 23.7, -0.1%. +2.61 OPIPM, +1.39 DPIPM, +3.99 PIPM. 11.08 Wins Added.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#8 » by capfan33 » Sat Feb 1, 2025 2:33 pm

1. Lebron- goated year, incredible playoff run, his “cleanest” title run, first by a mile.
2. Kd- excellent regular unusually followed up by an excellent playoff run, the only OKC year where he really didn’t have any major issues in the playoffs which makes him a pretty clear number 2.
3. KG- turns back the clock one more time to lead Boston perilously close to beating the Heat in epic fashion. Anchors the best regular season defense somehow at the age of 35 and then has his last great playoff run.
4. Kobe Bryant- gets somewhat muddy at this point. Gonna go with Kobe largely because Duncan did have a lot of help both in terms of teammates as well as the Spurs system generally. Somewhat of a bounce back regular season campaign although his efficiency was a bit down and then put up a good fight against eventual finalists OKC.
5. Duncan- tempted to go Dirk as this would prob be his last season you could reasonably put him (2014 has an argument but it’s a stretch) but Duncan here like KG anchors one of the best defenses in the league at the ripe old age of 35 and has an excellent postseason run that kicks off another mini dynasty for the Spurs that only ends with Kawhi leaving in 2018. The Spurs from 2012-2014 have one of the highest PSRS ratings ever and Duncan is a large part of that even though it was a team that won by committee. But without a particularly inspiring alternative I feel very fine giving this to Duncan.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#9 » by lessthanjake » Sat Feb 1, 2025 6:25 pm

This year was a bit of a transition year between generations. There was a generation of guys that had been amongst the league’s top players for a long time but were getting long in the tooth by this point (i.e., players like Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Garnett, Nash). And there was a younger generation whose great players ended up including a few guys who were sort of late bloomers (Curry and Harden in particular). So this was a year where there was a relative dearth of great players anywhere near their peak. There were still some guys who were in the middle of their prime (LeBron, Wade, Chris Paul, Dwight, and an early-blooming Durant), but the competition was thin compared to most years IMO. And this was in the middle of LeBron’s peak.

So this is clearly LeBron at #1 (and likely would’ve been even in a more competitive year). Anytime a guy who has a good case as the best player in the league goes on to win the title while playing well in the playoffs, they almost certainly should be POY. It would take something massive to overcome that, and no one even comes remotely close to that. I do think that Chris Paul at least has a case for having been the best RS player (for instance, he was 1st in EPM), but he was bad in a second-round loss to the Spurs in the playoffs so he’s not even close overall. Durant was really good in the regular season but not quite as good as LeBron. I think there’s an argument that Durant was as good or better than LeBron in the playoffs, but IMO it’s nowhere near a clear/good enough argument to overcome the fact that ultimately LeBron won the title and was better in the RS. Wade was in his prime but was taking a bit of a back seat to LeBron so obviously isn’t really competition for the #1 spot. Dwight was still good when he played but his team wasn’t good and he didn’t play in the playoffs, so he’s totally out. Some of the older guys like Garnett were good, but at this point just aren’t really POY-level guys anymore. So it’s an easy choice IMO. I think I’d go with Durant at #2, Chris Paul at #3, and would probably put Wade and Garnett in the last two spots.
OhayoKD wrote:Lebron contributes more to all the phases of play than Messi does. And he is of course a defensive anchor unlike messi.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#10 » by tone wone » Sat Feb 1, 2025 9:12 pm

Durants 2012 is great but I think there's notable distance between he and Lebron the entire year.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#11 » by homecourtloss » Sun Feb 2, 2025 1:07 am

Kind of interesting how some posters who very much value newfound tools for them, i.e., RAPM datasets, incomplete plus/minus numbers, incomplete/one player centric RAPM, seem to throw those things out the window in certain situations. For example, saying that Kevin Durant might have an argument as better in the playoffs, even though impact metrics that are valued in other situations highly, highly suggest otherwise.

1. LeBron. Great regular season, great postseason. Was the team’s best scorer, defensive quarterback, and offense initiator both this season and the previous season or near the very top of JE’s PI single season rs+ps set. +12, +4, 11, +12 rORtg series…might have been his most complete season.
2. KG. Leads a -6.4 rDRtg and has his last massive impact,season.
3. KD. Shows off his ability to score in any situation against any type of defense, but still was not that much of a defender nor was he creating offense, nor did the thunder suffer Massively when he wasn’t on the court since they also had defensive specialist and of course Russ as a force. If one wants to argue about Durant was the best scorer in the playoffs then there’s something there, but if they say he was the best player in the playoffs requires one to disregard defense, disregard playmaking, disregard impact.
4. CP3. Great regular season, which was marredby that versus the Spurs.
5. Duncan. Between him, Dirk, and Kobe here. Duncan between 2012 and 2014 has become quite underrated. Dirk in 2012 was quite underrated
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#12 » by Cavsfansince84 » Sun Feb 2, 2025 1:13 am

tone wone wrote:Durants 2012 is great but I think there's notable distance between he and Lebron the entire year.


I mean its like a top 3 rs for LeBron that ended in a title compared to a rs that prob isn't even top 5 for KD so there better be a pretty large gap.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#13 » by lessthanjake » Sun Feb 2, 2025 1:19 am

homecourtloss wrote:Kind of interesting how some posters who very much value newfound tools for them, i.e., RAPM datasets, incomplete plus/minus numbers, incomplete/one player centric RAPM, seem to throw those things out the window in certain situations. For example, saying that Kevin Durant might have an argument as better in the playoffs, even though impact metrics that are valued in other situations highly, highly suggest otherwise.


I think there’s a general consensus that impact metrics are not particularly helpful in the playoffs, since the sample sizes (particularly the “off” samples) are tiny. I’ve certainly been consistent in talking about that point on these forums and saying we shouldn’t put much value on single-season playoff RAPM. More generally, you seem very keen recently on making posts that obliquely reference me while baselessly suggesting that I’ve applied inconsistent standards. I’d encourage you to familiarize yourself with my post history in the future if you’d like to do that, because you keep suggesting things that really aren’t at all fair or correct.

In any event, to clarify, I’d agree that LeBron was better in the 2012 playoffs than Durant was. I don’t think Durant was particularly far off though, and all I said is that there’s an argument, but that I didn’t think it was all that good. The argument would have to index very heavily on scoring efficiency as well as probably a very high view of how tough an opponent the Spurs were. I’m ultimately not convinced by it (and indeed, LeBron is ahead in various metrics we could look at), but Durant *was* genuinely very good in those playoffs.
OhayoKD wrote:Lebron contributes more to all the phases of play than Messi does. And he is of course a defensive anchor unlike messi.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#14 » by capfan33 » Sun Feb 2, 2025 1:38 am

Yea Durant has no argument against LeBron this year (or really any year except 2021), different tiers of players. Especially against a year that’s frequently (albeit wrongly imo) argued as Lebrons peak.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#15 » by Djoker » Sun Feb 2, 2025 6:17 pm

I find the 2012 title run to be Lebron's most impressive one by far. From Game 4 against the Pacers onwards, he was incredibly consistent and the level of difficulty was high with Bosh hurt and just the sheer pressure. Although he'll almost surely be POY the following year as well, his 2013 PS run was much much worse.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#16 » by One_and_Done » Sun Feb 2, 2025 7:10 pm

Realistically Lebron is POY this year, next year, and the year after, rather easily.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#17 » by OhayoKD » Mon Feb 3, 2025 3:15 am

1. Lebron James

It's pretty clear cut for the regular-season. Two-way anchor for a team that plays at a 59-win pace with him (+7.7 net). A tiny Miami signal has Lebron-less Miami as bad during this stretch. Going by minutes with wade/bosh and no Lebron, they're average. In terms of production Lebron can be safely argued as a top 2 scorer, a top 2 playmaker, and a top 5 defender. This season also kicks off a 6-year stretch where Lebron teams are playing near 60-win basketball without Lebron's best teammate. With the other top teams all consisting of ensembles and the 2nd best individual only being able to score like Lebron, you have a pretty easy MVP.

And then we get the playoffs:
Spoiler:
Playoff Offensive Rating: +8.43 (15th), Playoff Defensive Rating: -3.54 (70th)
Playoff SRS: +13.01 (26th), Total SRS Increase through Playoffs: +5.17 (6th)
Shooting Advantage: +3.9%, Possession Advantage: +0.3 shooting possessions per game
Average Playoff Opponent Offense: +0.54 (88th), Average Playoff Opponent Defense: -3.43 (19th)

Round 1: New York Knicks (+2.4), won 4-1, by +14.0 points per game (+16.4 SRS eq)
Round 2: Indiana Pacers (+5.6), won 4-2, by +6.5 points per game (+12.1 SRS eq)
Round 3: Boston Celtics (+5.8), won 4-3, by +4.9 points per game (+10.7 SRS eq)
Round 4: Oklahoma City Thunder (+9.9), won 4-1, by +4.0 points per game (+13.9 SRS eq)

The first of many nails in the coffin of "Lebron -2 Port" and it really just becomes more damning the more one thinks on it.

Playoff-ratings like these do not adjust for health: Bosh missed 8 games. On a team already shallow in the front-court. Miami won regardless decisively handling a solid Pacers side. Wade spent most of the playoffs a shell of himself, yet in 9 games with the three starters Miami improve to 8-1, with an all-time playoff rating of +13.8. And then in the singular series Miami played with their big three near their best, the Heat did this:
Round 4: Oklahoma City Thunder (+9.9), won 4-1, by +4.0 points per game (+13.9 SRS eq)

Let's break down this OKC side a bit.

-> They won 50 games the previous two years losing to the eventual champion Lakers in 2010 (6 games) and the eventual champion Mavericks in 2011 (5 games)
-> This regular-season they put an SRS of +6.6 to go with a win-pace of 58.
-> The next regular-season, despite losing Harden, they win 60 while posting an SRS of +9
-> This postseason, even accounting for Miami dragging down their mark, they post an all-time playoff-srs, including a win against a San Antonio team that

-> is tied for best regular-season team by record and second best by SRS (chicago and san-antonio were tied in the former)
-> is a year off from a 2-year stretch where they beat the 89/90 Pistons on every front besides "don't lose to a perimeter star with the jersey number 23"
-> for the first two rounds of the playoffs, plays like an all-time playoff team

All of this, mind you, is coming in a period of non-expansion).

All of which is to say 2012 OKC are very good. A historically strong opponent featuring 3 offensive stars (Harden emerges as one in these playoffs), a strong defense, and excellent all-around synergy. And they're healthy and hot. And Miami wins in 5. Closer perhaps than 4-1 suggests but it's still a decisive victory against historic competition capping off a postseason run where Miami overcome injuries to their #2 and #3, sub-optimal fit to win Lebron's first championship. They did this with Lebron averaging 7 more minutes than his injury plagued #2, being forced a position up to accommodate a shallow front-court, and having their 2 best players overlap massively on offense. And, when close to remotely whole, they didn't just win, they dominated.

An easy #1 for the best perimeter player ever. And yeah, this one should be unanimous.

2. Kevin Durant

3. KD. Shows off his ability to score in any situation against any type of defense


Well, no. He showed his ability to score against any individual defender. But with Westbrook and Harden taking attention as more involved ball-handlers with scoring threats of their own, and Westbrook already offering elite playmaking, Durant didn't really show much regarding "situation" with the following playoffs strongly highlighting the difference between scoring numbers and scoring proficiency.

Durant excelled in a narrow role. Lebron excelled at a much wider one. They were never close.

3. Kevin Garnett
4. Tim Duncan

In the battle of (relatively) low minute defensive-specialists, Duncan can brag of leading the better team. Better in the regular-season, and better in the playoffs by anything other than "won games against Miami where they were missing people from their big three". best players were injured". However, I'll go with KG's clearer primacy. Not only did he anchor a league-best defense, but in the playoffs he is Boston's most highest volume and most effecient scorer after arguably being that in the regular-season.

5. Chris Paul

Top 3 regular-season player but Duncan smacks him head to head.

OPOY

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul

DPOY

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Lerbon James
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#18 » by eminence » Mon Feb 3, 2025 3:21 am

capfan33 wrote:Yea Durant has no argument against LeBron this year (or really any year except 2021), different tiers of players. Especially against a year that’s frequently (albeit wrongly imo) argued as Lebrons peak.


'19 KD pretty easily over '19 Bron.

'12 Bron also easily for POY.
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#19 » by Djoker » Mon Feb 3, 2025 4:08 am

VOTING POST

POY

1. Lebron James - 1st Team All-NBA. 1st Team All-Defense. MVP. Finals MVP. Clear best player in the world from start to finish and led his team to a title. Came up huge under pressure in the PS. Easy choice. Averaged 27.1/7.9/6.2 on +7.8 rTS in the RS then 30.3/9.7/5.6 on +6.5 rTS in the PS.

2. Kevin Durant - 1st Team All-NBA. Second best player in the world. Terrific scorer but still fairly one-dimensional as playmaking and defense would markedly improve over the next couple of seasons. Strong PS run carrying the Thunder to the Finals. Averaged 28.0/8.0/3.5 on +7.3 rTS in the RS then 28.5/7.4/3.7 on +11.6 rTS in the PS.

3. Chris Paul - 1st Team All-NBA. 1st Team All-Defense. CP3 came to a new team with Blake Griffin and led them to the 4th best offense in the league behind a very strong RS. In fact, I saw him in contention with Lebron after the 1st round but then he got injured against the Spurs and had a horrible series as the Clippers got brutally swept. Averaged 19.8/3.6/9.1 on +5.4 rTS in the RS then 17.6/5.1/7.9 on -0.1 rTS in the PS.

4. Kobe Bryant - 1st Team All-NBA. 2nd Team All-Defense. The Lakers were rapidly fading around Kobe but Bean was still a very strong offensive performer. The scoring efficiency was in decline but he still carried the Lakers to solid results and in a relatively weak year, there aren't many players better than him. Averaged 27.9/5.4/4.6 on +0.0 rTS in the RS then 30.0/4.8/4.3 on -0.3 rTS in the PS.

5. Dwyane Wade - 3rd Team All-NBA. After the debacle of the 2011 Finals where Lebron was passive, Wade decided to take a step back and give Lebron the keys to the team and the rest is history. Wade settled in as the #2 guy and thrived in that role. After having his knee drained midway through the Pacers series, Wade exploded to help close that series out without Bosh then came up strong in key moments against both Boston and OKC. Better player than his box score averages to me. Averaged 22.1/4.8/4.6 on +3.2 rTS in the RS then 22.8/5.2/4.3 on +1.5 rTS in the PS.

HM: Lots including DIrk, Westbrook, Duncan, KG...

OPOY

1. Lebron James

2. Kevin Durant

3. Chris Paul

Same order as POY because none of the top guys are defensive giants and have most of their impact from offense.

DPOY

1. Kevin Garnett - Boston had the #1 defense and KG was the biggest reason. Just a huge season by him.

2. Dwight Howard - Elite paint protector and rebounder still.

3. Joakim Noah - Anchored the #2 defense. Played more games and minutes than Duncan.

HM: Tim Duncan
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Re: Retro Player of the Year 2011-12 

Post#20 » by One_and_Done » Mon Feb 3, 2025 8:58 am

1) Lebron

2) KD
3) CP3

4) Wade
5) Dirk

Lebron is an easy call. Simply the best player in the RS and PS, as well as the best player of all-time.

KD was easily the 2nd best player, and led a pretty young and unprepared OKC team on a great finals run.

CP3 was easily the 3rd best player in basketball. Tough to blame him for his team losing. He didn't have enough talent. Not his best playoffs, but it was fine.

Wade had a reduced role (rightly), but was still in his prime. He started to fall off next season, and by 2014 was substantially worse. Last is Dirk, who was similarly good to the previous season but had a worse team around him and didn't do off in the PS.
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