Where would 1998 MJ rank today?

[Matt15]

Where would 1998 Jordan rank in todays league overall?

[jjgp111292]

That was the worst version of Chicago MJ with a bum wrist and eroded hops...with his portability he'd still be better than the Ants and Derozan's of the world but I'm not sure he'd be even top 7. That era he benefited from that wasteland of draft classes in the early 90s; it's eas unusual for all of the best guys in the league to be in their mid-30s

Then again, we have another wing with limited 3 point shooting who gets to line a lot in Jimmy Butler the last few years, and MJ would assuredly be better than that so...

[jdzimme3]

I will say top 5 during the regular season but likely higher for a playoff run. 82 games played is nice to see

[tsherkin]

Heavy jump shooting, eroded athleticism, injured finger and wrist on his shooting hand. Not the same as he was even a year prior. Worst scoring of any full season he had with Chicago. Heavily overrated on D for the most part, but still quite good on O despite his efficiency. ABSURDLY low-turnover season while supporting league-topping usage. Not a stunner at getting to the line because he was shooting so many jumpers. His short/middle game sucked in that RS and his playoffs weren't much to write home about... but again, he floated their offense basically on possession control, and playoff league-average efficiency was craaaaaap, at 52.4%, and he was better than that basically until his ugly Finals series.

Today, playing that way, he would not be a good first option volume scorer. Were he healthy, he might have looked a little different, and I imagine he might not shoot 23 FGA/g in this league. THe faster tempo would give some more easy opportunities to score, which would be good, too. Dreadful from 3, limp draw rate, non-elite on anything but perimeter two-point shooting... not a hot look from Jordan, outside of his ability to either get the shot up or move the ball.

Jordan was still great in-era, but that specific year of Jordan is about as poorly-disposed as a high-end star could get to translate into this league.

[One_and_Done]

Prolly top 10-15.

[oaktownwarriors87]

He was only 34 and he lead the NBA in scoring, won the MVP, was 4th in DPOY, lead his team to the best record in the NBA (Pippen missed half the season) and a Championship.

No way I'm picking SGA, Jokic or Gianni's over that.

[One_and_Done]

He was only 34 and he lead the NBA in scoring, won the MVP, was 4th in DPOY, lead his team to the best record in the NBA (Pippen missed half the season) and a Championship.

No way I'm picking SGA, Jokic or Gianni's over that.

Yeh, but it was 1998. That Bulls team wouldn't get out of the 2nd round today.

[LakerLegend]

Some absolute crazy talk in here...98 Jordan was universally considered a better player than a 26 year old Shaq.

[One_and_Done]

Some absolute crazy talk in here...98 Jordan was universally considered a better player than a 26 year old Shaq.

By the media who was trying to sell papers from his hype. In reality though? Not sure he was. This is also about how he'd play today. Shaq is a cleaner fit in today's league than an aging guard with no 3pt shot.

[LakerLegend]

Some absolute crazy talk in here...98 Jordan was universally considered a better player than a 26 year old Shaq.

By the media who was trying to sell papers from his hype. In reality though? Not sure he was. This is also about how he'd play today. Shaq is a cleaner fit in today's league than an aging guard with no 3pt shot.

The defense and physicality in 98 is worlds different than now. Jordan would have much better numbers from 3.

[One_and_Done]

Some absolute crazy talk in here...98 Jordan was universally considered a better player than a 26 year old Shaq.

By the media who was trying to sell papers from his hype. In reality though? Not sure he was. This is also about how he'd play today. Shaq is a cleaner fit in today's league than an aging guard with no 3pt shot.

The defense and physicality in 98 is worlds different than now. Jordan would have much better numbers from 3.

He gets the 3pt % he actually demonstrated. If anything the 3 was far less guarded in the 90s than today. Today the whole defense is geared around not giving up 3s, and they'd be harder for MJ to make as a result.

The defense today is much more physically taxing than in the 90s. The only way in which it was more 'physical' in Jordan's day is that occasionally guys would clothesline or elbow you. KG actually talked about it in a rare interview, noting that he's not sure how many guys from back then could make it today.

[LakerLegend]

By the media who was trying to sell papers from his hype. In reality though? Not sure he was. This is also about how he'd play today. Shaq is a cleaner fit in today's league than an aging guard with no 3pt shot.

The defense and physicality in 98 is worlds different than now. Jordan would have much better numbers from 3.

He gets the 3pt % he actually demonstrated. If anything the 3 was far less guarded in the 90s than today. Today the whole defense is geared around not giving up 3s, and they'd be harder for MJ to make as a result.

The defense today is much more physically taxing than in the 90s. The only way in which it was more 'physical' in Jordan's day is that occasionally guys would clothesline or elbow you. KG actually talked about it in a rare interview, noting that he's not sure how many guys from back then could make it today.

lol.

[One_and_Done]

The defense and physicality in 98 is worlds different than now. Jordan would have much better numbers from 3.

He gets the 3pt % he actually demonstrated. If anything the 3 was far less guarded in the 90s than today. Today the whole defense is geared around not giving up 3s, and they'd be harder for MJ to make as a result.

The defense today is much more physically taxing than in the 90s. The only way in which it was more 'physical' in Jordan's day is that occasionally guys would clothesline or elbow you. KG actually talked about it in a rare interview, noting that he's not sure how many guys from back then could make it today.

lol.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/kevin-garnett-believes-guards-from-20-30-years-ago-couldnt-compete-in-todays-nba

"The game is at another level," the retired forward claimed in an interview with the New York Times.

"I want you to get on a court, sprint corner to corner, stop on a dime and shoot a 3. I want you to do 10 of those. Then, I want you to focus on how tired you are. Because these players do that for 48 minutes. I don't think guys from 20 years ago could play in this game," he added.

[LakerLegend]

He gets the 3pt % he actually demonstrated. If anything the 3 was far less guarded in the 90s than today. Today the whole defense is geared around not giving up 3s, and they'd be harder for MJ to make as a result.

The defense today is much more physically taxing than in the 90s. The only way in which it was more 'physical' in Jordan's day is that occasionally guys would clothesline or elbow you. KG actually talked about it in a rare interview, noting that he's not sure how many guys from back then could make it today.

lol.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/kevin-garnett-believes-guards-from-20-30-years-ago-couldnt-compete-in-todays-nba

"The game is at another level," the retired forward claimed in an interview with the New York Times.

"I want you to get on a court, sprint corner to corner, stop on a dime and shoot a 3. I want you to do 10 of those. Then, I want you to focus on how tired you are. Because these players do that for 48 minutes. I don't think guys from 20 years ago could play in this game," he added.

There also plenty of comments from players/coaches/executives going the other way.

[One_and_Done]

lol.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/kevin-garnett-believes-guards-from-20-30-years-ago-couldnt-compete-in-todays-nba

"The game is at another level," the retired forward claimed in an interview with the New York Times.

"I want you to get on a court, sprint corner to corner, stop on a dime and shoot a 3. I want you to do 10 of those. Then, I want you to focus on how tired you are. Because these players do that for 48 minutes. I don't think guys from 20 years ago could play in this game," he added.

There also plenty of comments from players/coaches/executives going the other way.

Sure, and my position is generally 'who cares what players think, they prove how clueless they are the time'. But in this instance KG explains it well. There's a reason we don't see Charles Oakley or Reggie Evans types much today; they'd get played off the floor due to their inability to guard the perimeter.

Back in Kobe's day most guys stood around while one guy iso'd for most possessions. Today it's constant movement on D. That tires guys out.

[oaktownwarriors87]

He was only 34 and he lead the NBA in scoring, won the MVP, was 4th in DPOY, lead his team to the best record in the NBA (Pippen missed half the season) and a Championship.

No way I'm picking SGA, Jokic or Gianni's over that.

Yeh, but it was 1998. That Bulls team wouldn't get out of the 2nd round today.

In 1998 the NBA wasn't a Development League with a bunch of 20 year olds. You actually had to prove yourself before you got into the league.

And your high-paced game argument doesn't really work. Pretty much all the top layers in the league around the bottom and movement and speed. Doncic, LeBron, Tatum, Jokic, Embid, Giannis, KAT, Edwards, AD, Irving etc. Guys like Curry exception, not the rule.

[One_and_Done]

He was only 34 and he lead the NBA in scoring, won the MVP, was 4th in DPOY, lead his team to the best record in the NBA (Pippen missed half the season) and a Championship.

No way I'm picking SGA, Jokic or Gianni's over that.

Yeh, but it was 1998. That Bulls team wouldn't get out of the 2nd round today.

In 1998 the NBA wasn't a Development League with a bunch of 20 year olds. You actually had to prove yourself before you got into the league.

And your high-paced game argument doesn't really work. Pretty much all the top layers in the league around the bottom and movement and speed. Doncic, LeBron, Tatum, Jokic, Embid, Giannis, KAT, Edwards, AD, Irving etc. Guys like Curry exception, not the rule.

Yeh, disagree. The 98 Bulls were trash compared to the top teams today.

Your examples are just misguided. Firstly prime Giannis is incredibly mobile for a big. He's had patchy health this year, but still seems to get able to cover ground very well when he wants to, especially with his insane reach. AD is similar, with the additional proviso that he has been playing the 5 almost exclusively, and this move back to the 4 in Dallas is likely to be a disaster unless he gets back to hitting 3s. Tatum is very athletic and plays alot of 4. I don't know why you mentioned non-bigs like Irving and Luka, but they are bad defenders and are optinally deployed with 4 great defenders around them.

Embiid and Jokic play the 5, the one position where you can still have a traditional 5. Even then, Embiid is exposed every playoffs and Jokic gets by because he's so insanely good on offense that his weak D doesn't matter as much. KAT plays the 5 right now, and is pretty athletic tbh. He's not a great help defender obviously, but he played very good man D on Jokic last playoffs. I can't even take you seriously saying Edwards has poor speed.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Yeh, but it was 1998. That Bulls team wouldn't get out of the 2nd round today.

In 1998 the NBA wasn't a Development League with a bunch of 20 year olds. You actually had to prove yourself before you got into the league.

And your high-paced game argument doesn't really work. Pretty much all the top layers in the league around the bottom and movement and speed. Doncic, LeBron, Tatum, Jokic, Embid, Giannis, KAT, Edwards, AD, Irving etc. Guys like Curry exception, not the rule.

Yeh, disagree. The 98 Bulls were trash compared to the top teams today.

Your examples are just misguided. Firstly prime Giannis is incredibly mobile for a big. He's had patchy health this year, but still seems to get able to cover ground very well when he wants to, especially with his insane reach. AD is similar, with the additional proviso that he has been playing the 5 almost exclusively, and this move back to the 4 in Dallas is likely to be a disaster unless he gets back to hitting 3s. Tatum is very athletic and plays alot of 4. I don't know why you mentioned non-bigs like Irving and Luka, but they are bad defenders and are optinally deployed with 4 great defenders around them.

Embiid and Jokic play the 5, the one position where you can still have a traditional 5. Even then, Embiid is exposed every playoffs and Jokic gets by because he's so insanely good on offense that his weak D doesn't matter as much. KAT plays the 5 right now, and is pretty athletic tbh. He's not a great help defender obviously, but he played very good man D on Jokic last playoffs. I can't even take you seriously saying Edwards has poor speed.

I'm not saying any of them have poor speed. NBA tracking just puts them at the bottom in speed/distance covered while on the floor. It's not my opinion, it's a fact.

Role players are the ones running around non stop.

Top 10 players.in speed while on the floor (30+ MPG)

Camara
Bane
Daniels
McCollum
Martin
Wagner
Murray
Herro
Ball
McDaniels

Pretty much all the elite players are at the bottom.

[One_and_Done]

In 1998 the NBA wasn't a Development League with a bunch of 20 year olds. You actually had to prove yourself before you got into the league.

And your high-paced game argument doesn't really work. Pretty much all the top layers in the league around the bottom and movement and speed. Doncic, LeBron, Tatum, Jokic, Embid, Giannis, KAT, Edwards, AD, Irving etc. Guys like Curry exception, not the rule.

Yeh, disagree. The 98 Bulls were trash compared to the top teams today.

Your examples are just misguided. Firstly prime Giannis is incredibly mobile for a big. He's had patchy health this year, but still seems to get able to cover ground very well when he wants to, especially with his insane reach. AD is similar, with the additional proviso that he has been playing the 5 almost exclusively, and this move back to the 4 in Dallas is likely to be a disaster unless he gets back to hitting 3s. Tatum is very athletic and plays alot of 4. I don't know why you mentioned non-bigs like Irving and Luka, but they are bad defenders and are optinally deployed with 4 great defenders around them.

Embiid and Jokic play the 5, the one position where you can still have a traditional 5. Even then, Embiid is exposed every playoffs and Jokic gets by because he's so insanely good on offense that his weak D doesn't matter as much. KAT plays the 5 right now, and is pretty athletic tbh. He's not a great help defender obviously, but he played very good man D on Jokic last playoffs. I can't even take you seriously saying Edwards has poor speed.

I'm not saying any of them have poor speed. NBA tracking just puts them at the bottom in speed/distance covered while on the floor. It's not my opinion, it's a fact.

Role players are the ones running around non stop.

Top 10 players.in speed while on the floor (30+ MPG)

Camara
Bane
Daniels
McCollum
Martin
Wagner
Murray
Herro
Ball
McDaniels

Pretty much all the elite players are at the bottom.

And if we had tracking data for 98 it would be less than a quarter as much across the league.

[Cavsfansince84]

There also plenty of comments from players/coaches/executives going the other way.

The other way is mostly about it being easier to score which I think is also true. Defense is harder and more physically taxing due to how the league has made it easier to scrore and how offenses make way better use of the 3 pt shot.