RealGM

Shai’s the clear favorite for MVP rn, perhaps setting Jokic up for a pretty remarkable non-MVP year. Made me wonder how it would stack up historically

In 1964 both Wilt and Russell didn't win MVP, despite being at their peaks.

The answer is just the inverse of the 'worst MVP' polls. So one of those years I guess.

One_and_Done wrote:The answer is just the inverse of the 'worst MVP' polls. So one of those years I guess.

Not really, if you take a look at the weakest MVP seasons, they generally won it because of the mediocre competition.

Usually, the best non-MVP seasons lost against another all-time great player (like in my example).

64 Wilt and Russell, 78 or 79 Kareem, 90 Jordan, 93 Hakeem, 03 KG, 04 Duncan, 23 Jokic among historic regular seasons adjacent to MVP-winning years.

*insert West year*, 09 Wade and 17 Kawhi among non-winners.

RS wise, no order per-say

64 Bill and Wilt
90 Jordan
94 Robinson
03 Garnett
23 Jokic

2017 Curry, 2019+2020 Harden, and 2023 Jokic

This is the '64 Wilt and '73 Kareem thread. If Jokic continues this statistical pace and loses out to SGA, then he joins that list. As is though, the next tier:

- Pick any/all of 4 peak/prime Jordan non-MVP years ('89, '90, '93, '97)
- '62 Wilt
- '94 David Robinson
- '23 Jokic
- '22 Giannis
- '08 Chris Paul

If we count ABA, then you also gotta throw in '69 Connie Hawkins.

Insane Harden disrespect in this thread, classic.

Also, weird that there isn’t a single LeBron season mentioned considering how much praise he gets on here.

Ron Swanson wrote:This is the '64 Wilt and '73 Kareem thread. If Jokic continues this statistical pace and loses out to SGA, then he joins that list. As is though, the next tier:

- Pick any/all of 4 peak/prime Jordan non-MVP years ('89, '90, '93, '97)
- '62 Wilt
- '94 David Robinson
- '23 Jokic
- '22 Giannis
- '08 Chris Paul

If we count ABA, then you also gotta throw in '69 Connie Hawkins.

Connie was injured halfway through and only played 47 games and was not there at the end of the season. He was the best player in the ABA during those 47 but that's still not likely to be an MVP in any year. Fewest games winner (other than the 1999 half season) was Walton in 1978 with 58 (he only played 65 in his amazing title run the previous year and this was probably a bit of a makeup award based as much on 77 as 78).

08’ CP3 was the definition of an MVP. Primarily ball-handler, leading scorer/facilitator, elite defender, no star teammates, elevating an irrelevant franchise/market etc…. Not saying it was robbery that he didn’t win but nobody was more valuable to their team in regards to dominating every aspect of the game pertaining to their position.

EmpireFalls wrote:Insane Harden disrespect in this thread, classic.

Also, weird that there isn’t a single LeBron season mentioned considering how much praise he gets on here.

As much as people say guys like MJ, Shaq, LeBron, etc. should have more MVPs...in reality, there's maybe only one season among say, the three that I listed where you could really say they were robbed, and even then it evened out the next year (MJ not winning in '97, but getting pretty much a lifetime achievement award in 98 that he probably didn't quite deserve)

EmpireFalls wrote:Insane Harden disrespect in this thread, classic.

Also, weird that there isn’t a single LeBron season mentioned considering how much praise he gets on here.

2016 probably, I genuinely forgot it myself.

EmpireFalls wrote:Insane Harden disrespect in this thread, classic.

Also, weird that there isn’t a single LeBron season mentioned considering how much praise he gets on here.

Yeh it's probably gotta be a Lebron season by default really.

02 Kidd
62 Wilt and Oscar
61 Pettit, Baylor, and Wilt
73 Kareem and Archibald

2023 and 2025 Jokic will be up there.

One_and_Done wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:Insane Harden disrespect in this thread, classic.

Also, weird that there isn’t a single LeBron season mentioned considering how much praise he gets on here.

Yeh it's probably gotta be a Lebron season by default really.

Lebron seasons suffer from being compared to lebron himself. When the reference points is peak playoffs lebron or 2009,2010,2013 regulsr season lebron other years feel underwhelming

I think 2023 Jokic has to be at or near the top. 2025 Jokic will also be at or near the top (or, in the event that Jokic actually wins MVP, then 2025 SGA would be at or near the top here instead).

Others near the top would have to include Jordan in 1989 and 1990 (with 1990 probably being the best of those two), 1994 Robinson, 2019 Harden, and 2009 CP3. I think there’s probably an intuition to not pick the latter three in something like this, since those players’ playoff failings make us think less highly of them. But we should remember that the flip side of these players having lots of playoff failings is that they’re all-time greats basically solely on the back of their RS greatness, and their best RS campaigns were really really good.

I will also note that I’m not really thinking too much in the above about eras earlier than the 1980s. I’m sure there’s at least a small number of seasons from guys like Kareem, Wilt, Russell, West, and Oscar that would belong in this discussion too, but I’d have to sit down and think about that much more if I wanted to identify the best examples for those guys.

jjgp111292 wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:Insane Harden disrespect in this thread, classic.

Also, weird that there isn’t a single LeBron season mentioned considering how much praise he gets on here.

As much as people say guys like MJ, Shaq, LeBron, etc. should have more MVPs...in reality, there's maybe only one season among say, the three that I listed where you could really say they were robbed, and even then it evened out the next year (MJ not winning in '97, but getting pretty much a lifetime achievement award in 98 that he probably didn't quite deserve)

It wasn't a lifetime achievement award.

He got the Bulls to 62 wins with Scottie missing half the season. And led the league in scoring. He was still the best player.

What about 2001 Shaq?