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T10 Active Player Peaks

1) LeBron

2) Steph
3) Jokic

4) Giannis
5) Durant

6) Paul
7) Harden
8) Kawhi
9) Luka

10) AD

Order is pretty fluid/interchangeable within groups. For example I could see 6-9 in basically any order really.

Sidenotes:
I excluded Shai and Embiid because for Shai I think he reached a whole new level this year and want to see him keep it up for longer AND how he looks in the playoffs. And for Embiid he never put together the start-to-finish healthy dominant season that basically all of the guys I have listed have done. With that said:
- If Embiid was able to play a full season or two healthy at the level of player he seemed to be at his best, I would have him in the third group -- and maybe the top of that group, so 4th overall
- Considering the level I think Shai is at right now, I think I'd have him in the fourth group -- again order is pretty fluid, and I want to see him finish out the season AND how he looks in the playoffs, but I think I might have him the top of the group so 7th overall
So including these two at their peaks, and disregarding the health/smaller sample issues, based on strictly how I eval these players at their peak level, I'd go:
LeBron, Steph/Jokic, Embiid/Giannis/Durant, Shai/Paul/Harden/Kawhi/Luka

Not a bad list if you exclude Shai for obvious reasons, but I would have Durant definitely lower.

LBJ
Jokic
Curry
Giannis
Kawhi
Paul
Durant
Davis
SGA
Luka

I don’t think Giannis peaked higher than Durant

I think the tiers go like this (in no particular order within tiers):

Tier 1:

Jokic
Steph
LeBron

Tier 2:

Giannis
Chris Paul
Kawhi
Durant
Harden

Tier 3:

Luka
Anthony Davis
Embiid*
SGA**

I have an asterisk next to Embiid, because I think at his very best he’s up there in Tier 2 or maybe even Tier 1, but he never really actualized that for long enough for me to give him full credit for it.

Meanwhile, SGA right now is having an all-time season IMO. It’s good enough for Tier 1, but I’m not yet giving him full credit for it since we’re only just past the all-star break of the season in which he’s been at that level. Last year, he was Tier 3 at best, and I’m leaving him there for now, but I do expect him to go up.

I will also note that I think some of this depends on how narrowly we are defining “peak.” Is “peak” defined as a player’s best year, or is it more like a 5-year peak? Or something in between? That sort of thing could change things at the margins, though the guys with the best 1-year peaks tend to be the same ones with the best multi-year peaks.

Prolly somethingh like this, not order within tiers

Top 1
Lebron

Atg tier
Giannis
Shai
Jokic
Curry

Strong mvp tier
Paul
Luka
Harden
Embiid
Durant

What's people's thoughts on what time frame people should use when discussing peaks? 3 years? 7 years? 9 years?

Special_Puppy wrote:What's people's thoughts on what time frame people should use when discussing peaks? 3 years? 7 years? 9 years?

I feel like peak always refers to single season unless otherwise noted.

Here is my ranking.

Tier 1

1. Lebron
2. Jokic
3. Curry
4. Giannis

Tier 2

5. Luka
6. SGA
7. Paul
8. Davis
9. Durant
10. Harden
11. Kawhi
12. Embiid

I realize I'm higher on Giannis than a few others. I think an optimistic valuation of him is above everyone. It's a topic for a separate thread but I think he's the biggest underachiever of this generation largely due to so many playoff injuries.

Djoker wrote:Here is my ranking.

Tier 1

1. Lebron
2. Jokic
3. Curry
4. Giannis

Tier 2

5. Luka
6. SGA
7. Paul
8. Davis
9. Durant
10. Harden
11. Kawhi
12. Embiid

I realize I'm higher on Giannis than a few others. I think an optimistic valuation of him is above everyone. It's a topic for a separate thread but I think he's the biggest underachiever of this generation largely due to so many playoff injuries.

For that reason, would CP3 not be higher than Giannis here?

rk2023 wrote:

Djoker wrote:Here is my ranking.

Tier 1

1. Lebron
2. Jokic
3. Curry
4. Giannis

Tier 2

5. Luka
6. SGA
7. Paul
8. Davis
9. Durant
10. Harden
11. Kawhi
12. Embiid

I realize I'm higher on Giannis than a few others. I think an optimistic valuation of him is above everyone. It's a topic for a separate thread but I think he's the biggest underachiever of this generation largely due to so many playoff injuries.

For that reason, would CP3 not be higher than Giannis here?

I think peak Giannis in the 2021 playoffs is ahead of any version of CP3. Largely because of two-way impact.

Djoker wrote:

rk2023 wrote:

Djoker wrote:Here is my ranking.

Tier 1

1. Lebron
2. Jokic
3. Curry
4. Giannis

Tier 2

5. Luka
6. SGA
7. Paul
8. Davis
9. Durant
10. Harden
11. Kawhi
12. Embiid

I realize I'm higher on Giannis than a few others. I think an optimistic valuation of him is above everyone. It's a topic for a separate thread but I think he's the biggest underachiever of this generation largely due to so many playoff injuries.

For that reason, would CP3 not be higher than Giannis here?

I think peak Giannis in the 2021 playoffs is ahead of any version of CP3. Largely because of two-way impact.

Oh I agree there.

Apologies for the wording, I meant specifically in terms of underachieving (if we are factoring playoff injuries into the mix)

rk2023 wrote:

Djoker wrote:

rk2023 wrote:
For that reason, would CP3 not be higher than Giannis here?

I think peak Giannis in the 2021 playoffs is ahead of any version of CP3. Largely because of two-way impact.

Oh I agree there.

Apologies for the wording, I meant specifically in terms of underachieving (if we are factoring playoff injuries into the mix)

Well playoff injuries are more of a prime not a peak issue. Peak is understood to be 1-year on here. Giannis would not be in my Tier 1 if we looked at prime stretches of say 5-10 years. I'd have quite a few other names ahead of him.

Djoker wrote:

rk2023 wrote:

Djoker wrote:
I think peak Giannis in the 2021 playoffs is ahead of any version of CP3. Largely because of two-way impact.

Oh I agree there.

Apologies for the wording, I meant specifically in terms of underachieving (if we are factoring playoff injuries into the mix)

Well playoff injuries are more of a prime not a peak issue. Peak is understood to be 1-year on here. Giannis would not be in my Tier 1 if we looked at prime stretches of say 5-10 years. I'd have quite a few other names ahead of him.

The problem I have when talking about a 1-year peak for Giannis is that the 2021 regular season was a bit of a step down from his very best regular seasons. But it has to be our choice for his peak since it’s the year he put it together in the playoffs. He doesn’t really have a year that combines his peak RS play with a great playoff run, which limits how good his absolute 1-year peak can be. His best is more like a near-peak RS and a great playoff run. Still great, but not as great a 1-year peak as he could’ve had. Another issue is that, even when it comes to the playoffs, he missed most of the ECF. He was a bit lucky that the ECF opponent was uncommonly weak so it didn’t really matter, but missing most of the ECF does still matter at least somewhat when assessing how good his year was.