RealGM

who do you think had the better peak

Giannis clears due to massive defensive advantage.

Barkley is clearly a better offensive player in my opinion though, despite lower counting numbers.

Giannis and it's not close. Charles is more of a Kobe/K.Malone tier of player. Not in Giannis league.

Giannis, easily. He played defense. You can make an argument about Chuck's offense, but Giannis at his peak was also a DPOY (and, like, legitimately). And not far off on the offensive side, assuming you don't accept that his offensive peak was also higher.

No argument for Barkley overall.

No one has mentioned it but Barkley is also considerably more durable. Giannis missed PS games in 2021 which was by far his best playoff run. And honestly it's not remotely close offensively IMO. Barkley is clearly better on that end.

Overall I'd give Giannis the edge because of two-way impact. It's akin to say a KG vs. Dirk comparison.

I'm going Giannis for reasons already echoed in this thread, but I think the Barkley disrespect is getting a little too much for my liking. Ditto on the idea that it's getting a bit insulting how people talk about Giannis as an offensive player. For a guy who's done nothing but average 30+ on hyper efficient scoring and whose team offenses are always in the 119-120 rating range with him on the court the last 4-5 years, you'd think we're talking about Demar DeRozan with the way he's immediately dismissed from the "best offensive players in the league" conversation. The only guys Giannis isn't "remotely close to" on offense are pretty much the offensive GOAT tier dudes.

Was Barkley ever a top 3 player in the league?

Special_Puppy wrote:Was Barkley ever a top 3 player in the league?

Hard to argue that he wasn't his MVP year ('93). Who besides Jordan and Hakeem? It was D-Rob's weakest prime season by far, and I don't think the next tier guys have much of any case (Ewing, Malone, rookie Shaq?).

I think I’d take Giannis here, because (1) the gap on defense is quite large; and (2) while Barkley was the more consistent playoff performer of the two IMO, we’re talking peak and I don’t think he ever had a series as impressive as Giannis’s 2021 Finals.

That said, I do think there’s a pretty big difference on offense between the two. Giannis is a very good offensive player, but I think Barkley is in the conversation for top 10 offensive player of all time. I think Giannis’s advantage on defense outweighs Barkley’s advantage on offense, but not by a massive amount, because I think Barkley is probably giving you like around 3-5 extra points of impact on offense. If I thought Barkley were even an average defensive player, then I think this would be a really tough choice.

Also, I do want to note that my answer here is limited to my view of how good they were at their peak and/or at their best. If we look more broadly than that, I think you might well want Barkley on your team over Giannis, due to the fact that Giannis is often injured in the playoffs and not super consistent in the playoffs when he does play, while Barkley is much more available and is a pretty consistent performer in the playoffs.

Ron Swanson wrote:

Special_Puppy wrote:Was Barkley ever a top 3 player in the league?

Hard to argue that he wasn't his MVP year ('93). Who besides Jordan and Hakeem? It was D-Rob's weakest prime season by far, and I don't think the next tier guys have much of any case (Ewing, Malone, rookie Shaq?).

I also had him 3rd in '90 [behind only Jordan and Magic]. Again have him precisely 3rd inn’93 [jordan and Hakeem] years.
No other years do I have him that high.

Special_Puppy wrote:Was Barkley ever a top 3 player in the league?

How many seasons would Giannis be top 3 in Barkley's era?

Ron Swanson wrote:

Special_Puppy wrote:Was Barkley ever a top 3 player in the league?

Hard to argue that he wasn't his MVP year ('93). Who besides Jordan and Hakeem? It was D-Rob's weakest prime season by far, and I don't think the next tier guys have much of any case (Ewing, Malone, rookie Shaq?).

He's got Magic 2nd and you have Hakeem

What do you make of this?

migya wrote:

Special_Puppy wrote:Was Barkley ever a top 3 player in the league?

How many seasons would Giannis be top 3 in Barkley's era?

Peak Giannis? Probably in 1992-94 at least (with Jordan and Hakeem, fighting with Robinson).

70sFan wrote:

migya wrote:

Special_Puppy wrote:Was Barkley ever a top 3 player in the league?

How many seasons would Giannis be top 3 in Barkley's era?

Peak Giannis? Probably in 1992-94 at least (with Jordan and Hakeem, fighting with Robinson).

Don't think he is comparable with all three and Malone had arguably his best numbers seasons at about 1992. Ewing also could be seen as clearly better. Less scoring, what does Giannis excel in compared to those guys?

Giannis.

Barkley basically didn't play defense, especially later in his career. He was a lot of fun to watch though.

migya wrote:

70sFan wrote:

migya wrote:
How many seasons would Giannis be top 3 in Barkley's era?

Peak Giannis? Probably in 1992-94 at least (with Jordan and Hakeem, fighting with Robinson).

Don't think he is comparable with all three and Malone had arguably his best numbers seasons at about 1992. Ewing also could be seen as clearly better. Less scoring, what does Giannis excel in compared to those guys?

Everything?

Here are Giannis per 100 numbers from 2020-25:

43/17.1/8.5 on 625 TS%.

Ewing & Charles never had even a single season with that statistical profile, never mind over a 6 year stretch. D.Rob didn't really either, nor did Malone. Honestly, Giannis numbers hold up well compared to Jordan and Hakeem too.

Numbers aren't everything, but the non-numvers arguments are much the same. Only peak Hakeem, Jordan, and maybe D.Rob, are even in consideration with peak Giannis.

migya wrote:Don't think he is comparable with all three and Malone had arguably his best numbers seasons at about 1992. Ewing also could be seen as clearly better. Less scoring, what does Giannis excel in compared to those guys?

What?

Giannis easily clears Ewing, and was very obviously a better defender than Malone. And at worst a comparable offensive player, plus a better rebounder, and playoff performer. Robinson becomes an interesting debate, but Giannis holds up against higher-end defenses better and handles volume offense better as well.

tsherkin wrote:

migya wrote:Don't think he is comparable with all three and Malone had arguably his best numbers seasons at about 1992. Ewing also could be seen as clearly better. Less scoring, what does Giannis excel in compared to those guys?

What?

Giannis easily clears Ewing, and was very obviously a better defender than Malone. And at worst a comparable offensive player, plus a better rebounder, and playoff performer. Robinson becomes an interesting debate, but Giannis holds up against higher-end defenses better and handles volume offense better as well.

Can't compare eras obviously and don't think Giannis performs as he has in that environment.

tsherkin wrote:

migya wrote:Don't think he is comparable with all three and Malone had arguably his best numbers seasons at about 1992. Ewing also could be seen as clearly better. Less scoring, what does Giannis excel in compared to those guys?

What?

Giannis easily clears Ewing, and was very obviously a better defender than Malone. And at worst a comparable offensive player, plus a better rebounder, and playoff performer. Robinson becomes an interesting debate, but Giannis holds up against higher-end defenses better and handles volume offense better as well.

Yes, but you’re responding to a poster who begins every discussion with his default assumption that a player from the ‘80s/‘90s was better.

homecourtloss wrote:Yes, but you’re responding to a poster who begins every discussion with his default assumption that a player from the ‘80s/‘90s was better.

Indeed.

migya wrote:Can't compare eras obviously and don't think Giannis performs as he has in that environment.

Not really a lot to suggest that's true. More likely that he'd perform better, with the way illegal defense would help keep the second defender away when he's in close. Athletic 7-footer with a handle and power? I mean, we saw how that actually went in that era, only Giannis puts energy into defense which Shaq did not.