How many Bird years over Peak Durant?

[Matt15]

How many years of Bird would you take over Peak Kevin Durant?

[70sFan]

If you view Durant's peak as one of 2014-17 seasons, then 1984, 1986 and 1987. 1985 and 1988 are rougher, depending on how you value postseason play.

I think Bird was clearly a better player than Durant overall.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Echo 70's comment

1984 and 1986 are definitely ahead.

I think 1985 before the hand injury is ahead.

1987 I think I would probably have ahead.

1988 maybe could be ahead without the PS injury. This year is arguably his offensive peak (definitely is in the RS).

[One_and_Done]

I'm not sure how many Bird seasons are above KD, I'd have to think about it. I will say that with all KDs longevity at this point he might have a good case to be above Bird all-time.

[70sFan]

I'm not sure how many Bird seasons are above KD, I'd have to think about it. I will say that with all KDs longevity at this point he might have a good case to be above Bird all-time.

Durant's longevity, although better than Bird's, is nothing special in all-time talks. His post-2021 years are horribly overrated .

[Texas Chuck]

I'm higher on his longevity than 70s(and tend to value longevity more than most in general), but the gap of them as players isn't something KD can close with longevity unless he plays another 3-4 years around his current level and even then I might go with Bird. He was just so dominant in ways KD has never been.

People see the effortless scoring and ignore that as offensive stars go he might be at the very bottom in terms of teammate elevation. And thus guys with less impressive scoring totals/efficiency were clearly better offensive players than him.

But the numbers just look so big and so impressive and he's so smooth, that he gets a bump by those who are aesthetic or modern era focused.

[Peregrine01]

I'm higher on his longevity than 70s(and tend to value longevity more than most in general), but the gap of them as players isn't something KD can close with longevity unless he plays another 3-4 years around his current level and even then I might go with Bird. He was just so dominant in ways KD has never been.

People see the effortless scoring and ignore that as offensive stars go he might be at the very bottom in terms of teammate elevation. And thus guys with less impressive scoring totals/efficiency were clearly better offensive players than him.

But the numbers just look so big and so impressive and he's so smooth, that he gets a bump by those who are aesthetic or modern era focused.

Durants play on the court is really a mirror reflection of his personality off it. On and off, he just seems to be on an island by himself. And I think he likes the craft of one-on-one play and skills more than team basketball.

[One_and_Done]

I posted this in another thread.

Something worth noting is that when KD was in situations where he needed to carry a team, he absolutely showed he could.

In OKC in 2014 in games Westbrook was out the Thunder were 25-11 without him thanks to KD.

Brooklyn was a weird situation due to all the injuries and dramas, but we certainly saw that in normal circumstances KD could carry the Nets, with the high point being that incredible 7 game series vs the Champs. In 21 & 22, the 2 relatively normal seasons, they were 59-31 in games he played.

Even in Phoenix, where he's fallen off a little, the effect of his impact is still clear. KD on the Suns this year: 33-26.
Suns without KD: 2-11

Suns with KD since he arrived: 85-57
Without KD: 14-24

So while I don't think KD has the lift peak Bird gives you, the idea he doesn't help his team win is a bit silly. He isn't giving you the same sort of value Bird does on offense, but he's giving you alot more on D, is more portable, and has significantly more longevity. I'm still likely taking Bird over him, but it is a conversation.

[70sFan]

I'm higher on his longevity than 70s(and tend to value longevity more than most in general),

I don't think it's possible to value longevity more than me in general

I posted this in another thread.

but he's giving you alot more on D,

It's arguable if Durant gives you more on defense at all.

is more portable,

That's also very much arguable.

and has significantly more longevity.

He played more games than Bird, but I don't think the gap between the two in that regard is significant at all. Durant was top 5 player basically only in 2010-21 period, which excluding 2015 and 2020 gives you only 10 seasons. Bird was top 5 player in 1980-88, so only 9 seasons.

[trelos6]

Durant and Bird, while similarly big wings who can shoot it, offer vastly different things.

Bird has much higher creation chops, and generally better all round on defense, while peak KD offers some rim protection.

Also, by virtue of his era, KD is the far more efficient player, frequently at or above +8 rTS%. Bird had a few years at +7 rTS%, but typically was at +4 rTS%, despite his reputation as a shooter.

I'd also say, once KD got to Golden State, he got to play in the perfect environment.

I'd probably take '84, '86, '87 Bird over the best KD seasons.

[One_and_Done]

Durant and Bird, while similarly big wings who can shoot it, offer vastly different things.

Bird has much higher creation chops, and generally better all round on defense, while peak KD offers some rim protection.

Also, by virtue of his era, KD is the far more efficient player, frequently at or above +8 rTS%. Bird had a few years at +7 rTS%, but typically was at +4 rTS%, despite his reputation as a shooter.

I'd also say, once KD got to Golden State, he got to play in the perfect environment.

I'd probably take '84, '86, '87 Bird over the best KD seasons.

I don't think any version of Bird was a better defender than prime KD. Bird was a bad man defender, and only really excelled on help D.

[The Master]

Re: thread - I find Bird overall overrated, but still I think '84 and '86 seasons easily - '85 and '87 maybe based on RS, are better than KD '17 or '14 seasons. It can be argued that Durant 2014 was on par with these '85 and '87 seasons though (probably the only season with prime Bird-esque impact in the RS by KD, and I don't think LB was necessarily a strong PO performer in '87 either). You can have '17 Durant over Bird '85 and '87 only if you believe that somehow KD improved into legit top-tier offensive anchor of championship team at that time, and that's giving way too much benefit of a doubt. Bird '84 and '86 are beyond anything in KDs catalogue.

I'm not sure how many Bird seasons are above KD, I'd have to think about it. I will say that with all KDs longevity at this point he might have a good case to be above Bird all-time.

Does he though?

'08 and '09 - negative player impact-wise, no value
'15 - 27 games in regular season
'19 - injured in post-season
'20 - injured all season
'21 - 35/72 games played in RS
'22 - 55/82 games played in RS (-2.9 BPM in the playoffs)
'23 - 47/82 games played in RS (4.6 BPM in the playoffs)

You can give an edge for Durant in terms of longevity, but his prime ended when he was 33yo (and this 20/21 season - while KD was amazing in the playoffs - is hard to be treated as the full season) + he has 11 to 10 All-NBA seasons over LB + he's still ~top30 player probably, so that's secondary point for him as well.

That's the difference maybe enough to put one over another when you have two players on par in terms of peak and prime. I don't think that's the case here, Bird in '84 and '86 had complete seasons as the best player in the league clearly over anything what was achieved by KD in his career.

[SNPA]

If you view Durant's peak as one of 2014-17 seasons, then 1984, 1986 and 1987. 1985 and 1988 are rougher, depending on how you value postseason play.

I think Bird was clearly a better player than Durant overall.

I love me a good 70s Fan pro Bird post.

[Jaivl]

Oh boy, the showdown of the overrated all-time wings.

Think I'd go 1986 and 1987 Bird over peak Durant.

When it comes to Durant, a lot of people combine his OKC explosiveness and rim attacking, his GSW superior rim protection, help defense and playmaking (IMO only enabled by an ideal situation), his BRO/PHX craftiness and midrange shooting and the myth that he's 7' with guard-like handles (he's not); and that's just not the player KD was at any point in his career.

Bird has much higher creation chops, and generally better all round on defense, while peak KD offers some rim protection.
I'd probably take '84, '86, '87 Bird over the best KD seasons.

I don't think any version of Bird was a better defender than prime KD. Bird was a bad man defender, and only really excelled on help D.

Probably doesn't matter for this peak-ish vs peak comparison, but relative to era young Bird is a far better help defender than peak Durant.

[Hair Jordan]

1980-88, 1991. Durant belongs in the KG / Giannis club if historically overrated players. Durant without Golden State is a ringless, oft injured choker.