2024-25 RealGM All-Season Awards Discussion Thread

[Doctor MJ]

It's that time!

Every season the RealGM PC board does it's All-Season awards for the NBA.

"All-Season" means we factor in both the regular season and the playoffs - and we generally do this about a week after the Finals end.

The awards we give are:

Player of the Year (POY) - most accomplished overall player of that season.
Offensive Player of the Year (OPOY) - most accomplished offensive player of that season.
Defensive Player of the Year (DPOY) - most accomplished defensive player of that season.
Rookie of the Year (ROY) - most accomplished rookie of that season.
Most Improved Player (MIP) - player whose improvement was the most noteworthy accomplishment.
6th Man of the Year (6MOY) - most accomplished player eligible as a 6th man that season.
Coach of the Year (COY) - most accomplished coach of that season.
Executive of the Year (EOY) - most accomplished GM/front office leader of that season.

POY has a 5-man ballot, all others have a 3-man ballot.
Only full ballots will be counted, and each ballot must be given some reasoning in the voting post.
For voters, POY is mandatory, all others are optional.

To participate:
1. Ask to be added to the panel by PMing me.
2. Contribute positively to the Discussion thread. (Note that past participants in good standing are generally cut some slack here, but I really do want everyone to be in Discussion in the playoffs.)

For reference, here's the list of previous award winners. Note that all years prior to 2009-10 were done as part of the Retro Player of the Year project, while later years were done after the season in question. All specific votes are listed in theoriginal Retro POY thread first post. Note also that beginning in 2014-15 we added the non-POY awards.

If you'd like to geek out about award shares, you can find the total tallies for POY, OPOY & DPOY here.

[Doctor MJ]

Quick post: My language above is unchanged from the previous year and does not acknowledge the UPDATE project. Honestly, I'm still finishing the school year and don't have my head completely around how to present the two related projects going forward. Future group discussions there should be primarily in the UPDATE project thread. You can also PM me if you want to share thoughts with me - AEnigma, I'll definitely be looking to talk with you, as well as fix some of the errors in the original that you've identified.

[Doctor MJ]

To get started talking about the awards this year, I think it makes sense to talk about Wemby as a DPOY candidate.

We have not incorporated the recent changes to the NBA's official awards - addition of Clutch POY & minimum game requirement - and that means that Wemby is eligible for our DPOY award.

When considering voting for Wemby there, just keep this in mind:

These awards are not Best Player awards, they are about the accumulated accomplishment of the player over the season. Hence, you might argue that a player who played 41 games would have to be twice as valuable per game to match an 82 game player, though I'd say it's harder than that because we weigh the playoff so generally in NBA culture.

For this reason, I doubt I'll have Wemby on my ballot despite the fact he was quite clearly my DPOY at the moment he got injured, but I'm not looking to stop others from voting for him. Just keep in mind the criteria that I've specified and the fact that you need to explain your votes in this project (and that yes, I have rejected votes before for "best player" reasoning previously).

[Doctor MJ]

I'm looking forward to people making DPOY cases in particular with the non-Wemby guys because I think it's so close.

My thought right now: I feel really weird about Draymond's candidacy. I think he is playing the best defensive basketball right now and am not looking to imply any kind of skepticism to how good he is at his best, but at least through the end of the regular season, I am skeptical that he really did as much over the course of the season as some other guys.

Other guys on my mind:

Evan Mobley - Was in the lead for me for much of the season, but his candidacy has weakened toward the end.

Ivica Zubac - Not a guy I ever seriously thought about before, but he's broken out this year and frankly I think he deserves All-NBA. Impact indicators specifically make him look to me like maybe he should get the RS award.

Amen Thompson - Clearly he and his brother are the most spectacular athletes in the league at this time and their play at the very least warrant All-D when playing enough minutes, which Amen is. Is he really giving more defensive value than the bigs though?

Lu Dort - OKC has the best D, and Dort I think warrants being the guy singled out, but to me this is a team thing more than a best-defender thing. I think Dort, JDub, SGA & Caruso deserve All-D consideration, but if Chet's healthy next year, my guess would be that he'd be the strongest DPOY candidate of the bunch.

Dyson Daniels - The number of steals means we should absolutely analyze what effects he's having on his team. Only question is whether the cons are big enough to mitigate the pros...but with gamblers, they often are.

[Doctor MJ]

Most Improved Player is always a tricky one because, depending on your philosophy, you might need to really do a detailed search among fringe players. I tend to focus on guys who achieved all-star level play for the first time.

So, the guys chosen as official 1st time all-stars:

Cade Cunningham
Tyler Herro
Evan Mobley
Alperen Sengun
Victor Wembanyama
Jalen Williams

I'll also specifically include

Ivica Zubac

because I think that he's continued to get stronger and is now clearly an all-star level player (and I think should get strong All-NBA consideration.

[jalengreen]

Vibe check going into the playoffs

POY

1. Shai
2. Jokic
3. Giannis
4. Tatum
5. Could be any number of guys, awaiting postseason for some separation

OPOY

1. Jokic
2. Shai
3. Curry?

DPOY

1. Draymond
2. Amen
3. Zubac

DPOY's a tough one, I'm not attached to any candidate. Mobley/Daniels are probably the most notable HMs, nobody I'd pick on OKC (IHart, Caruso, JDub all very impressive though). I lean towards these three at the top (and there's a decent chance one of those three will be in the WCF which would help, given what it'd likely take from that player to get there)

MIP

1. Zubac
2. Cade
3. Dyson

[Doctor MJ]

When I'm putting together a 6MOY analysis, I typically start by just looking at who is eligible from successful teams. So listing some guys:

Aaron Wiggins (OKC)
Isaiah Joe (OKC)
De'Andre Hunter (ATL/CLE)
Caris LeVert (CLE/ATL)
Ty Jerome (CLE)
Payton Pritchard (BOS)
Tari Eason (HOU)
Miles McBride (NYK)
Gabe Vincent (LAL)
Amir Coffey (LAC)
Russell Westbrook (DEN)
Obi Toppin (IND)
Buddy Hield (GSW)
Naz Reid (MIN)
Scotty Pippen Jr (MEM)
Santi Aldama (MEM)
Gary Trent Jr. (MIL)
Malik Beasley (DET)

A quick query I do is: Most Bench Games with Positive +/-. Here's how that leaderboard looks:

1. Sam Merrill (CLE) 46
(tie) Payton Pritchard (BOS) 46
3. Nickeil Alexander-Walker (MIN) 42
(tie) Caris LeVert (CLE/ATL) 42
5. Georges Niang (CLE/ATL) 41
(tie) Ty Jerome (CLE) 41

[Doctor MJ]

List of Major Transactions by Teams with debatably highly positive net moves:

OKC: Trade for Caruso (gave up Giddy), Acquired iHart
CLE: (fired Bickerstaff) Hired Atkinson, Trade for Hunter (gave up LeVert, Niang)
NYK: Trade for Mikal (gave up assets), Trade for KAT (gave up Randle & assets)
LAL: (fired Ham) Hired Redick, Trade for DFS (gave up DLo), Trade for Luka (gave up AD)
LAC: Gave up George & Westbrook
MIN: Trade for Randle & assets (gave up KAT)
MIL: Trade for Kuzma (gave up Middleton)
MEM: Drafted Edey & Wells, (fired Jenkins) Hired Iisalo
DET: (fired Monty) Hired Bickerstaff, signed Harris, Beasley
ATL: Drafted Risacher, Traded for Dyson & assets (gave up Dejounte)
CHI: Trade for Giddey (gave up Caruso), Gave up DeRozan, Trade for Huerter (gave up LaVine)
POR: Drafted Clingan, Trade for Avdija (gave up Brogdon & assets)
SAS: Drafted Castle, Acquired Paul, Trade for Barnes (gave up ???), Trade for Fox (gave up assets)
BRK: Trade for Assets (gave up Mikal), trade for Assets (gave up DFS)

Please let me know if there's anything I'm forgetting.

[The-Power]

Other guys on my mind:

Interesting to me who you don't mention, namely the two most recent DPOY who are still very much worthy of consideration IMO.

Lu Dort - OKC has the best D, and Dort I think warrants being the guy singled out, but to me this is a team thing more than a best-defender thing. I think Dort, JDub, SGA & Caruso deserve All-D consideration, but if Chet's healthy next year, my guess would be that he'd be the strongest DPOY candidate of the bunch.

Dort is super fun to watch but he is not much of a defensive playmaker and I just don't see players like that as serious DPOY candidates. There's also little indication that he separates himself from other good perimeter defenders in terms of impact.

[sp6r=underrated]

I'm going to follow this thread but not vote. My take on the knicks off-season moves. The moves were good but given the leap Cleveland made I wish they didn't make em.

The current team could make the finals if the East only had 1 elite team but not with 2. And I think those moves were banking on the non-emergence of another very strong team in the East.

That said, I still like Rose.

[AEnigma]

Initial thoughts.

Player of the Year
1. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo
4. Jayson Tatum
5. TBD

Top three are reasonably secure, and Shai specifically will be on the ballot regardless of what happens in the postseason. Tatum needs to make the conference finals, because right now I just have him as something of a de facto fourth by yet again playing significant minutes and not missing much time for a top three team in the league, but he has the inside track in a way I do not think anyone else does.

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Draymond Green
2. Evan Mobley
3. TBD

I expect the top two will stay top two in some order. In consideration for the other spot are JJJ, Gobert, Giannis, Zubac (hard for me to take him over Gobert though), maybe Amen… Chet is in the back of my mind but would essentially need to win Finals MVP for me to overlook all the missed time.

Offensive Player of the Year
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
3. Tyrese Haliburton
HM: Luka Doncic

Not much change from last year, with Luka picking up an injury penalty and Shai elevating his scoring to legendary levels. Luka can excuse the missed time with an impressive postseason and/or some Haliburton postseason faltering. Anyone else would require at minimum a Finals run, although for bracket reasons I suppose I could see myself considering Trae in a (ludicrous) hypothetical where he upsets the Cavaliers, out-duels Haliburton in a second upset, and then continues playing like a superstar in a conference finals loss.

Sixth Man of the Year
- Payton Pritchard
- Naz Reid
- TBD

Reid is playing more and has done a lot to cover for the loss of Towns, which to me gives him a much stronger case than last year (where I either had him third or off the ballot). Pritchard is the rightful favourite here, and because I care about minutes, difficult to envision anyone else overtaking him.

Coach of the Year
- Mark Daigneault
- Kenny Atkinson
- Ime Udoka
HM: JJ Redick

For me this award is almost entirely about the playoffs, but I will recognise the excellent regular season work of these four. Also will show respect to what Bickerstaff achieved in Detroit, but I cannot realistically envision him on the ballot without an even more stunning postseason.

General Manager of the Year
- Sam Presti
- Koby Altman
- Nico Harrison for the Lakers

:p

I have not built much of an opinion on Most Improved, but I want to be clear that I am resistant on principle to giving it to third year players.

I intend to skip Rookie of the Year. Castle gets my regular season vote, but he cannot do anything to build his case in the postseason.

[Doctor MJ]

Other guys on my mind:

Interesting to me who you don't mention, namely the two most recent DPOY who are still very much worthy of consideration IMO.

Lu Dort - OKC has the best D, and Dort I think warrants being the guy singled out, but to me this is a team thing more than a best-defender thing. I think Dort, JDub, SGA & Caruso deserve All-D consideration, but if Chet's healthy next year, my guess would be that he'd be the strongest DPOY candidate of the bunch.

Dort is super fun to watch but he is not much of a defensive playmaker and I just don't see players like that as serious DPOY candidates. There's also little indication that he separates himself from other good perimeter defenders in terms of impact.

Go ahead and make the cases!

[The-Power]

Other guys on my mind:

Interesting to me who you don't mention, namely the two most recent DPOY who are still very much worthy of consideration IMO.

Lu Dort - OKC has the best D, and Dort I think warrants being the guy singled out, but to me this is a team thing more than a best-defender thing. I think Dort, JDub, SGA & Caruso deserve All-D consideration, but if Chet's healthy next year, my guess would be that he'd be the strongest DPOY candidate of the bunch.

Dort is super fun to watch but he is not much of a defensive playmaker and I just don't see players like that as serious DPOY candidates. There's also little indication that he separates himself from other good perimeter defenders in terms of impact.

Go ahead and make the cases!

Will try to get to it when the votes roll around and after I saw the playoffs unfold. But essentially, both players are still clearly lead respective team in terms of defensive on/off (-5.1 for Gobert and -4.8 for JJJ with no other key rotation player particularly close) and lead good defenses when on the court (MIN would rank 3rd looking only at Gobert's minutes, and MEM would rank 8th). Both are also liked by D-EPM, though Gobert clearly more than JJJ (99th percentile to 92nd percentile). And while their block numbers have come down considerably from their peak levels, player tracking still ranks them among the most effective shot contesters around the basket (for JJJ, in particular, the volume is lower this season but he is insanely effective whenever he does contest).

I think they are right up there with the other notable candidates such as Green, Mobley and Zubac because they were both legitimate DPOY-level defenders before and even though one can certainly claim that they are not at their peak levels anymore, their main competition is another player who is not at his peak anymore (Green), a player who is still developing and has yet to reach the elite level of these two players at their peak (Mobley), and a player who has been breaking out this year but is not widely viewed for being a truly game-changing defender (Zubac). If Victor played the whole season then the non-peak versions of JJJ and Gobert do not compare (though even their peak versions are probably a step below Victor) but with the current competition I do not see a clear separation of anyone else from their current post-peak versions.

[trelos6]

Most Improved Player is always a tricky one because, depending on your philosophy, you might need to really do a detailed search among fringe players. I tend to focus on guys who achieved all-star level play for the first time.

So, the guys chosen as official 1st time all-stars:

Cade Cunningham
Tyler Herro
Evan Mobley
Alperen Sengun
Victor Wembanyama
Jalen Williams

I'll also specifically include

Ivica Zubac

because I think that he's continued to get stronger and is now clearly an all-star level player (and I think should get strong All-NBA consideration.

I think this is the hardest award. As always, the jump to superstar / all nba is the hardest jump to make. Cade and Mobley have compelling cases though, and Zubac might just take them all.

[jalengreen]

Not feeling Dyson Daniels for MIP after thinking about it more, I think Mobley and Herro are both more compelling candidates. Would probably replace him with Mobley. Gobert also slipped my mind for DPOY, he has a good case for making my ballot. Really not as high on JJJ at this point, suppose a strong PS run could sway me but I don't expect that to happen.

List of Major Transactions by Teams with debatably highly positive net moves:

OKC: Trade for Caruso (gave up Giddy), Acquired iHart
CLE: (fired Bickerstaff) Hired Atkinson, Trade for Hunter (gave up LeVert, Niang)
NYK: Trade for Mikal (gave up assets), Trade for KAT (gave up Randle & assets)
LAL: (fired Ham) Hired Redick, Trade for DFS (gave up DLo), Trade for Luka (gave up AD)
LAC: Gave up George & Westbrook
MIN: Trade for Randle & assets (gave up KAT)
MIL: Trade for Kuzma (gave up Middleton)
MEM: Drafted Edey & Wells, (fired Jenkins) Hired Iisalo
DET: (fired Monty) Hired Bickerstaff, signed Harris, Beasley
ATL: Drafted Risacher, Traded for Dyson & assets (gave up Dejounte)
CHI: Trade for Giddey (gave up Caruso), Gave up DeRozan, Trade for Huerter (gave up LaVine)
POR: Drafted Clingan, Trade for Avdija (gave up Brogdon & assets)
SAS: Drafted Castle, Acquired Paul, Trade for Barnes (gave up ???), Trade for Fox (gave up assets)
BRK: Trade for Assets (gave up Mikal), trade for Assets (gave up DFS)

Please let me know if there's anything I'm forgetting.

Butler to GSW

[AEnigma]

Looking more into Most Improved Player, starting with some of the most commonly mentioned names.

Cade Cunningham — in his fourth year, became a legitimate all-star. Biggest production change was a scoring increase, but he also developed as a playmaker. Significant team turnaround. Reasonable candidate on those merits, but I want to see him matched up against Brunson for a series to better assess the extent of his leap.

Evan Mobley — in his fourth year, became a legitimate all-star bordering on all-NBA. Biggest production change was a scoring increase. Candidacy for me is heavily dependent on how he fares in the postseason.

Ivica Zubac — in his ninth year, became an all-star calibre player. Increased minutes while increasing rate production almost across the board (lowest per possession blocks of his career). Possibly my early favourite for the award, but he needs to maintain in the postseason.

Dyson Daniels — in his third year, became a reliable starter for a weak playoff team. Massively increased his minutes while simultaneously increasing his rate production across the board… although some part of that is because of his change in teams. Like I said, I dislike rewarding third year players here, but at least with Dyson we see substantial improvement (not always the case).
Will note that third year player Christian Braun did something similar in terms of going from bench piece to reliable starter. Fifth year player Payton Pritchard arguably did this too (would be a starter on most teams other than the Celtics… but in turn, could have conceivably been a starter for a lottery team as early as last year.)

Tyler Herro — in his sixth year, became an official all-star. Biggest production change was an increase in scoring efficiency, which is particularly impressive because he did so while becoming the team’s first option. Personally not convinced this leap is anything for the team to build around though.

Norm Powell — in his tenth year, became a solid sub-all-star. Biggest production change was a scoring increase, setting a new career high. Similar candidacy to Herro for me; good to see, but when you profile as the fourth best player on a good team, the value offered quickly hits a cap.

Austin Reaves in his fourth year, became a fringe all-star. Biggest production change was a scoring increase — the largest of any starter, and relatedly the largest per possession of anyone in this field. Also has been playing better defence under Redick (not that I would call him good). Do not understand why he is not being regularly listed above Herro for this award.

If there are other candidates being overlooked, I am interested to hear about them. I kind-of hate this award, so not sure whether I will issue a formal vote on it, but it is at least interesting to look at the candidates every year.

[falcolombardi]

Powell, reaves, zubac and daniels fit the spirt of the award better imo

Cade and mobley were high end prospects following a normal high end prospect growth curve, their improvement is being showcased more because how much the teams around them improved, herro in my view was already close to as good as he currently is in the previous seasons but was in a sidekick role instead of a lead option one

Daniels is young which some dont like to reward with mip, but was not a heralded prospect and his explosion into a elite defensive player came completely unexpected to most of us

Powell is a veteran solid starter whose career by all metrics seemed to have hit its plateau already so the significsnt improvement into near all star play is fairly notable

Zubac is similar to powell in that regard so those two clippers would fit the spirit of the award better

Reaves however fits both being a unheralded prospect like daniels, with huge improvement curve into legitimate near all star talent of zubac and powell

albeit some may argue that as early as 2023 (sophomore year) reaves had already shown incredible talent regardless od his undrafted status so we may be over rewarding a young prospect following his normal development curve just because he was overlooked by initial draft scouts

I think zubac currently may be the best player og these 4th and like powell was not expected to ever become this good so he would be my pick right now

[jalengreen]

Powell, reaves, zubac and daniels fit the spirt of the award better imo

Cade and mobley were high end prospects following a normal high end prospect growth curve, their improvement is being showcased more because how much the teams around them improved, herro in my view was already close to as good as he currently is in the previous seasons but was in a sidekick role instead of a lead option one

Daniels is young which some dont like to reward with mip, but was not a heralded prospect and his explosion into a elite defensive player came completely unexpected to most of us

Powell is a veteran solid starter whose career by all metrics seemed to have hit its plateau already so the significsnt improvement into near all star play is fairly notable

Zubac is similar to powell in that regard so those two clippers would fit the spirit of the award better

Reaves however fits both being a unheralded prospect like daniels, with huge improvement curve into legitimate near all star talent of zubac and powell

albeit some may argue that as early as 2023 (sophomore year) reaves had already shown incredible talent regardless od his undrafted status so we may be over rewarding a young prospect following his normal development curve just because he was overlooked by initial draft scouts

I think zubac currently may be the best player og these 4th and like powell was not expected to ever become this good so he would be my pick right now

Dyson was already an elite defensive player in New Orleans tbh. He was 95th percentile in d-EPM in 2023 and 2024, and he had the 2nd most steals per 100 possessions in 2024. His role with the Hawks exploded as he went from a rotational piece to a starter, but I struggle seeing his overall improvement as comparable to the other guys.

Herro's up to a 60.5% TS% this year after peaking at 56.6% in years 1-5. His volume hasn't increased that much either - worth noting that this is his 4th season in a row leading the Heat in FGA/g (not including possessions where Butler got to the line but still). So to me it does seem like legitimate improvement as the leading explanation

I think DLo being traded was a pretty big deal for Reaves. 16.8 PPG on 57.3% TS% pre-DLo trade, 21.4 PPG on 62.8% TS% afterwards. Could still see him on my ballot but it's something that gives me pause.

(and side note, difference in levels of being an unheralded prospect between #8 overall and UDFA.)

[Verticality]

Haliburton demands Offensive Player Of the Year consideration.

[Doctor MJ]

Powell, reaves, zubac and daniels fit the spirt of the award better imo

So +1 for the thoughts in general, but I wanted to talk about the "spirit of the award" conversation for MIP.

First let me acknowledge that there are two parallel tracks of thinking here and I'm not sure how much of each you subscribe to:

a) Guys who were top prospects shouldn't get MIP because they are just doing what they were expected to do.

b) 2nd year (or even 3rd year) players shouldn't get MIP because they are just doing what they were expected to do.

I'm not going to say that either of these viewpoints are wrong, or that people can't vote on MIP with these viewpoints in mind, however historically the first MIP was Alvin Robertson who was a 2nd year player drafted #7 overall. Kevin Johnson also wins the MIP in the early year in basically the same situation, and then #1 overall pick Pervis Ellison wins it in his 3rd year.

This then to say that if we take the early years of the award as a proxy for award spirit, (a) & (b) really go completely counter to that spirit.

Again not saying folks can't vote with an (a) or (b) based criteria, but I think it's important to understand that this represents a rejection of the initial spirit of the award, not a valuing of the original spirit.

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Now, just speaking for myself, first, a formative moment for me with this award in '09-10 when 3rd year Aaron Brooks won the award over fellow 3rd year Kevin Durant (who finished 2nd). I found this to be such a disservice to the NBA because it was clear at the time both that Durant actually made the bigger leap and Durant was clearly the player worth hyping. Brooks of course would go back to being an obscure bench player the following year never to be relevant again while Durant would be one of the great players of this ear.

More broadly I have two main things in mind here about criteria, one specific to MIP, and one generally:

Specific to MIP:

Rookies ineligible. I believe this is a universally agreed upon thing, but if anyone wants to debate whether it should be we can. I personally am not going to consider a rookie for this award.

By that same token, if there were a Sophomore of the Year, I'd expect 2nd year players to be ineligible for MIP...but of course there isn't, and when the MIP was made they immediately gave it to the aforementioned 2nd year guy.

General to all awards:

I see awards such as the NBA Awards to have a primary purpose of promotion rather than bow-taking. Sure players strive for these awards and I think it's wrong to mess with criteria each year so you can choose simply based on who gets the most clicks, but these awards themselves are an act of communication signaling to the mainstream who they should be paying attention to.

This is particularly true with a future-facing award like ROY, and variations on ROY which is what I would consider MIP to be. ROY is about announcing to the mainstream "Hey, out of all the new talent this year, this is the guy we're most excited about based on his play this year" as opposed to "this rookie role player was a perfect fit on this contending team and thus added more value than the guys we see as future stars".

For ROY this year this is actually going to be quite relevant because I think Jaylen Wells was the Most Valuable Rookie, but he's generally not seen as a future star. Anyone who wants to vote for Wells for ROY here is free to do so, but I personally don't expect to do so because frankly it really seems like the "guy you should pay attention to" aspect of ROY has settled down to Stephon Castle vs Zaccherie Risacher, so I'm expecting to have those two guys atop my ballot. I reserve the right to have my mind changed of course, but just in terms of how I see the award and how players this year are perceived, this is what I'm expecting to do.

Back over to MIP:

This focus on who the mainstream should be paying attention to relates to why I focus on the players achieving all-star level play. I think realistically the player who actually improved the most in any given year is probably some guy who figured out some skills that allow him to stick on an NBA roster rather than getting cut, but what's the value in trying to identify that player? and, are we even confident we can do that with consistent objectivity?

I think it's more meaningful to think about guys who've reached a certain level of play worth paying attention to, and one might argue that the historic threshold for this has been all-star status, as that's kinda what the all-star game was for. Hence the players I listed before.

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Now one little wrinkle: With this criteria in mind, I'm actually a bit hesitant to choose a guy who isn't young for this award. If we're talking about someone who isn't actually and "up and comer", maybe we should focus on giving the hype to someone younger?

Example: Darrell Armstrong won MIP when he was 30, and I'll add, he did this in a year where he also won 6th Man of the Year. To me this example teaches us lessons:

1. If we don't use a level for MIP up at all-star levels, we run the risk of giving not one but two awards to a player than the mainstream really doesn't need to care about.

2. When we give the MIP award to a 30 year old, we're probably giving the award to someone who will become not more but less relevant not long in the future.

So all this I think relates back to Zubac's candidacy here: The man is now 28 and might have just had his best case scenario year, so how much bang for our buck do we get giving him this award?

I'll be pondering that as I consider my award and it might be a reason why I end up siding with guys like Cade or Mobley over him.

At the same time I'll acknowledge this doesn't sit right with me, because I specifically think Zubac's career has been wrongly held back by his coaches - both his own in treating him as a back-up for too long, and in all-star selection where I don't think NBA coaches ever seriously considered giving him a spot this year when I think he really should have been chosen in January, and he's only impressed more since then.

The idea of not giving a player MIP award at age 28 because he's old, when him breaking out at this age has to do with previously, mistakenly limited opportunity, rubs me the wrong way.