Bosh vs Towns

[durantbird]

Who had the higher peak as of now?

[Cavsfansince84]

Kind of a wash imo with the nod to Bosh just because winning titles as a #3 is prob better than what either did as a #1. I'll leave the door open for KAT to do more as a co#1 in ny this year or in the future if he has a strong playoff and can get them past Boston somehow.

[Doctor MJ]

Bosh.
Defense.

[lessthanjake]

Towns is a better offensive player, but Bosh is a little better overall because the gap on defense is pretty significant (moreso because Towns defense is bad than that Bosh’s defense was great).

[tsherkin]

Bosh.
Defense.

Not in Toronto when their offensive output was similar

[Doctor MJ]

Bosh.
Defense.

Not in Toronto when their offensive output was similar

When what his team needed to win a championship was for Bosh to play the 5 on defense and do it well, he did it, and that's why I see him as someone you want when building a contender.

[tsherkin]

When what his team needed to win a championship was for Bosh to play the 5 on defense and do it well, he did it, and that's why I see him as someone you want when building a contender.

At considerably reduced offensive responsibility, leaving him with the energy to focus on that. Minnesota still needed Towns to score a lot to do anything, as he was the best scorer on the team. KAT has his weaknesses, but I don't think you can make that comparison directly with the large difference in offensive responsibility and actual play depending on those role differences.

[Doctor MJ]

When what his team needed to win a championship was for Bosh to play the 5 on defense and do it well, he did it, and that's why I see him as someone you want when building a contender.

At considerably reduced offensive responsibility, leaving him with the energy to focus on that. Minnesota still needed Towns to score a lot to do anything, as he was the best scorer on the team. KAT has his weaknesses, but I don't think you can make that comparison directly with the large difference in offensive responsibility and actual play depending on those role differences.

If you're looking to argue that KAT could play defense like Bosh did in Miami, please do make that argument as it's the critical one for me.

As is I just don't see KAT having a role to play on a true contender. I think his existence in your core means that getting through 4 matchups with playoff teams just won't happen. I could be wrong of course, but KAT's weaknesses are really easy to attack if he's playing the 5, and his strengths aren't that much of an outlier if he's playing the 4.

[tsherkin]

If you're looking to argue that KAT could play defense like Bosh did in Miami, please do make that argument as it's the critical one for me.

I don't think he could. Bosh was pretty mobile, and that featured prominently in Miami's specific plan of defense in the absence of a conventional rim-defending big.

As is I just don't see KAT having a role to play on a true contender. I think his existence in your core means that getting through 4 matchups with playoff teams just won't happen. I could be wrong of course, but KAT's weaknesses are really easy to attack if he's playing the 5, and his strengths aren't that much of an outlier if he's playing the 4.

I think he works less problematically on D as a 4, and his offense works just fine as a 5, so long as you don't ask him to be a 25 ppg focal piece, personally.

And I think if what you want is a defensive role player, there are better choices than Bosh, who was pretty inconsistent on offense for the Heat in the playoffs.

Differences between the players, for sure. But I think KAT's workable in the right context, just like Bosh was. Probably not on Miami particularly, but that's less important.

[Doctor MJ]

If you're looking to argue that KAT could play defense like Bosh did in Miami, please do make that argument as it's the critical one for me.

I don't think he could. Bosh was pretty mobile, and that featured prominently in Miami's specific plan of defense in the absence of a conventional rim-defending big.

As is I just don't see KAT having a role to play on a true contender. I think his existence in your core means that getting through 4 matchups with playoff teams just won't happen. I could be wrong of course, but KAT's weaknesses are really easy to attack if he's playing the 5, and his strengths aren't that much of an outlier if he's playing the 4.

I think he works less problematically on D as a 4, and his offense works just fine as a 5, so long as you don't ask him to be a 25 ppg focal piece, personally.

And I think if what you want is a defensive role player, there are better choices than Bosh, who was pretty inconsistent on offense for the Heat in the playoffs.

Differences between the players, for sure. But I think KAT's workable in the right context, just like Bosh was. Probably not on Miami particularly, but that's less important.

I think I was unclear before so let me phrase:

Against some good teams...
You can't play KAT at the 4 because offensively he's not that special as a 4.
You can't play KAT at the 5 because defensively he's just too bad at the 5.

Now it's entirely possible that my absolute statements about KAT having no place on a true contender are too harsh, but to this point what we know about KAT is that you'd really like to pair him with a Stretch 5 who can play great defense...but if you have such a player, that's the guy you want to pay max money to, not KAT.

[tsherkin]

I think I was unclear before so let me phrase:

Against some good teams...
You can't play KAT at the 4 because offensively he's not that special as a 4.
You can't play KAT at the 5 because defensively he's just too bad at the 5.

Now it's entirely possible that my absolute statements about KAT having no place on a true contender are too harsh, but to this point what we know about KAT is that you'd really like to pair him with a Stretch 5 who can play great defense...but if you have such a player, that's the guy you want to pay max money to, not KAT.

I'd take my chances with KAT at the 4 if he was in a secondary role, to be honest. I think the largest issues have come from asking too much of him more than anything else. I don't really agree that you can't play him offensively at the 4.

[eminence]

I'll go with Bosh in a close one, prefer his offensive decision making but mostly for his better defense. KAT is a more efficient play finisher if that's what you need, better on the offensive glass as well.

Both are 'true contender' #3s (don't bring up the beautiful game Spurs, they're an anomaly). Bosh got his crack with prime LeBron and late prime Wade, KAT got his with pre-prime Ant and late prime Gobert. That's the primary reason one won and the other didn't. If KAT had spent the last 4 seasons with Steph (Wade) and Tatum or Giannis (LeBron) I expect he could've won too.

Still a chance KAT re-writes how I see his peak as well - I've been happy with how he's looked at the 5 this season, arguably the best player on the 51 win 3 seed Knicks. Not bad.

[Doctor MJ]

I'll go with Bosh in a close one, prefer his offensive decision making but mostly for his better defense. KAT is a more efficient play finisher if that's what you need, better on the offensive glass as well.

Both are 'true contender' #3s (don't bring up the beautiful game Spurs, they're an anomaly). Bosh got his crack with prime LeBron and late prime Wade, KAT got his with pre-prime Ant and late prime Gobert. That's the primary reason one won and the other didn't. If KAT had spent the last 4 seasons with Steph (Wade) and Tatum or Giannis (LeBron) I expect he could've won too.

Still a chance KAT re-writes how I see his peak as well - I've been happy with how he's looked at the 5 this season, arguably the best player on the 51 win 3 seed Knicks. Not bad.

So, I do think we need to recognize that the reason why the Heat needed Bosh to become a Stretch 5 so badly is because Wade sucked at it, whereas Curry's the GOAT at it. Of course offensively KAT can be that Stretch 5, but Bosh was playing outstanding defense while he did so, which we have no reason to think KAT could do.

This then to say:

Is it possible that a set of talent could exist wherein KAT was the 3rd best guy and the team could win a title? Yes.
Is it likely KAT could play an extremely valuable role on such a team while being a distant 3rd scoring option? No, I don't think so. I don't think it makes sense to think that KAT forced to do much less of what made him a star would learn to be extremely good in other aspects of the game.

[eminence]

I'll go with Bosh in a close one, prefer his offensive decision making but mostly for his better defense. KAT is a more efficient play finisher if that's what you need, better on the offensive glass as well.

Both are 'true contender' #3s (don't bring up the beautiful game Spurs, they're an anomaly). Bosh got his crack with prime LeBron and late prime Wade, KAT got his with pre-prime Ant and late prime Gobert. That's the primary reason one won and the other didn't. If KAT had spent the last 4 seasons with Steph (Wade) and Tatum or Giannis (LeBron) I expect he could've won too.

Still a chance KAT re-writes how I see his peak as well - I've been happy with how he's looked at the 5 this season, arguably the best player on the 51 win 3 seed Knicks. Not bad.

So, I do think we need to recognize that the reason why the Heat needed Bosh to become a Stretch 5 so badly is because Wade sucked at it, whereas Curry's the GOAT at it. Of course offensively KAT can be that Stretch 5, but Bosh was playing outstanding defense while he did so, which we have no reason to think KAT could do.

This then to say:

Is it possible that a set of talent could exist wherein KAT was the 3rd best guy and the team could win a title? Yes.
Is it likely KAT could play an extremely valuable role on such a team while being a distant 3rd scoring option? No, I don't think so. I don't think it makes sense to think that KAT forced to do much less of what made him a star would learn to be extremely good in other aspects of the game.

Well, OPs question feels closer to the first one, 'Could KAT be Bosh' is a whole different thread.