RealGM

I hope you don't mind a thread about coaches - this seems like the best place for it, and an appropriate time, as the playoffs are about to start.

So, watching the recent college tournaments(men's and women's), it occurred to me that college coaches are often ranked not just in terms of how many national championships they've won, but in terms of how many Final Fours they've made; and that NBA coaches generally aren't discussed in that way. Well, I got curious and compiled a comprehensive list that covers every coach of every team that ever made a Final Four in the NBA or ABA - whether it was called the Eastern Conference Finals, Western Conference Finals, (NBA, ABA, or BAA) Eastern Division Finals, (NBA, ABA, or BAA) Western Division Finals, the ABA Semifinals, the BAA Semifinals, or anything else. If you were the coach of one of the final four teams in the playoffs, you're in the list.

The list categorizes all the coaches by how many Final Fours they made. Starting with the "1X Club" - which no doubt contains some flukes - and building all the way up to the "10x+ Club", the very predictable Rushmore of NBA coaches. For coaches who did it in both the NBA and the ABA, it is clearly delineated how many times they did it in each league.

I've included some lists of key players for ABA teams and NBA teams from the mid-60s and earlier just to provide some context for those who may not be familiar(I have assumed such information is unnecessary for NBA teams mid-60s and later as there probably aren't many here who aren't at least somewhat familiar with all those teams).

I'm not going to draw any concrete conclusions from this - coaches on the lower rungs may have been in flukey situations, while those on the higher rungs may have benefited from competing in a smaller league or having a loaded team - and I am honestly more interested in any conclusions you all might have.

I will drop a few factoids though:

By my count, only eight coaches have made a Final Four with at least three different organizations - Pat Riley, Alex Hannum, Larry Brown, Rick Carlisle, Bill Fitch, George Karl, Bill Sharman, and Joe Mullaney. Of those eight, only two have made a Final Four with more than three different organizations, they being Alex Hannum and Larry Brown, who each did it with five different organizations.

The longest gaps between Final Four appearances:

Buddy Jeanette, Del Harris, and Don Nelson top the list, each with 17 year gaps(48->65, 81->98, 86->03, respectively). Larry Brown is next with a 16 year gap(78->94), though that is a unique situation where he essentially spent a decade in the NCAA. Rick Carlisle and Red Holzman are next with 13 year gaps(11->24 and 56->69, respectively). Then it's Mike D'Antoni and Lenny Wilkins with 12 year gaps(06->18 and 80->92, respectively).

The highest-ranking active coaches:

Technically Pops is still active, so he's at the top with 10 appearances. Then it's Erik Spoelstra, with 7, and Steve Kerr, with 6. After that, the next highest are Rick Carlisle and Tyronn Lue, with 4 each.

Anyway, I just hadn't seen NBA coaches looked at through this lens before and I felt like doing it. Hopefully somebody gets something out of it.

And without further ado, the list:

KEY
* = Made/Lost the Finals
** = Won the Title
Italics = Denotes a season in which the coach acted as a player-coach

The 1x Club
Neil Cohalan(47 Knicks)

• Lee Knorek, Bud Palmer, Stan Stulz, Butch Van Breda Kolff

Ken Loeffler(48 Bombers)

• John Logan, Ariel Maughan, Red Rocha, Belus Smawley

Doxie Moore(50 Packers)

• Charlie Black, Frankie Brian, Jake Carter, Bill Cloys, John Hargis

Paul Birch(53 Pistons)

• Larry Foust, Andy Phillip, Fred Scolari

Red Rocha(58 Pistons)

• Team built around George Yeardley

Neil Johnston(60 Warriors)
Frank McGuire(62 Warriors)

• Both Wilt teams

Dick McGuire(62 Pistons)

• Bailey Howell, Ray Scott, Don Ohl

Charles Wolf(63 Royals)
Jack McMahon(64 Royals)

• Both Oscar Teams

Vince Cazzetta ABA(68 Pipers**)

• Team built around pre-injury Connie Hawkins

Cliff Hagan ABA(68 Dallas Chaparrals)

• Charlie Beasley, Cincy Powell, John Beasley, Maurice McHartley, Elton McGriff

Joe Belmont ABA(70 Denver Rockets)

• Team built around Spencer Haywood in his rookie/MVP season

Gene Rhodes ABA(70 Colonels)
Frank Ramsey ABA(71 Colonels**)
Lou Carnesecca ABA(72 Nets*)

• Team built around ABA Rick Barry

Bob MacKinnon ABA(75 Spirits)

• Freddie Lewis, Marvin Barnes, Maurice Lucas

Bob Bass ABA(76 Spurs)
Dr. Jack Ramsay(77 Blazers**)
Tom Nissalke(77 Rockets)
Jerry West(77 Lakers)
Paul Westhead(80 Lakers**)
Bernie Bickerstaff(87 Sonics)
Doug Collins(89 Bulls)
Paul Westphal(93 Suns*)
Bob Hill(95 Spurs)
Jim O'Brien(02 Celtics)
Avery Johnson(06 Mavs*)
Alvin Gentry(10 Suns)
Lionel Hollins(13 Grizzlies)
Kevin McHale(15 Rockets)
David Blatt(15 Cavs*)
Billy Donovan(16 Thunder)
Dwane Casey(16 Raptors)
Terry Stotts(19 Blazers)
Nick Nurse(19 Raptors**)
Monty Williams(21 Suns*)
Nate McMillian(21 Hawks)
Ime Udoka(22 Celtics*)
Darvin Ham(23 Lakers)
Mark Daigneault(25 Thunder)

The 2x Club
Eddie Gottlieb(47 Warriors**, 48 Warriors*)

• Team built around Joe Fulks

Harold Olsen(47 Stags*, 48 Stags)

• Team built around Max Zaslofsky

Buddy Jeannette(48 Bullets**, 65 Bullets)

• 48 Bullets - Kleggie Hermsen, Paul Hoffman
• 65 Bullets - Walt Bellamy, Gus Johnson, Bailey Howell

Charley Eckman(55 Pistons*, 56 Pistons*)

• Team built around George Yardley

George Senesky(56 Warriors**, 58 Warriors)

• Paul Arizin, Neil Johnston

Ed Macauley(59 Hawks, 60 Hawks*)
Harry Gallatin(63 Hawks, 64 Hawks)

• Bob Pettit teams

Dolph Schayes(65 Sixers, 66 Sixers)

• Wilt teams

Butch Van Breda Kolff(68 Lakers*, 69 Lakers*)
Gene Shue(71 Bullets*, 77 Sixers*)
Al Bianchi ABA(71 Squires, 72 Squires)

• 71 - Charlie Scott, George Carter, Mike Barrett, Doug Moe, Jim Eakins, Ray Scott
• 72 - Dr. J, Jim Eakins, Fatty Taylor, Bernie Williams, Doug Moe

LaDell Andersen ABA(72 Stars, 73 Stars)

• Zelmo Beaty teams

Kevin Lougery ABA(74 Nets**, 76 Nets**)

• 74 - Dr. J, Larry Kenon, Billy Paultz, Brian Taylor
• 76 - Dr. J, Brain Taylor, John Williamson, Rich Jones

Hubie Brown ABA(75 Colonels**, 76 Colonels)

• 75 - Gilmore, Issel
• 76 - Issel

Doug Moe(79 Spurs, 85 Nuggets)
Del Harris(81 Rockets*, 98 Lakers)
Stan Albeck(82 Spurs, 83 Spurs)
Brian Hill(95 Magic*, 96 Magic)
Jeff Van Gundy(99 Knicks*, 00 Knicks)
Byron Scott(02 Nets*, 03 Nets*)
Mike Brown(07 Cavs*, 09 Cavs)
Tom Thibodeau(11 Bulls, 25 Knicks)
Mike Malone(20 Nuggets, 23 Nuggets**)
Jason Kidd(22 Mavs, 24 Mavs*)
Joe Mazzulla(23 Celtics, 24 Celtics**)
Chris Finch(24 Wolves, 25 Wolves)

The 3x Club
Paul Seymour(57 Nationals, 59 Nationals, 61 Hawks*)

• 57/59 Nationals - Built around Dolph Schayes
• 61 Hawks - Bob Pettit

Jim Pollard(1 NBA[60 Lakers], 2 ABA[68 Muskies, 69 Floridians])

• 68 Muskies - Mel Daniels, Donnie Freeman, Les Hunter, Ron Perry
• 69 Floridians - Skip Thoren, Willie Murrell, Les Hunter, Maurice McHartley

Babe McCarthy ABA(68 Buccaneers*, 69 Buccaneers, 74 Colonels)

• 68/69 Buccaneers - Jimmy Jones, Doug Moe, Larry Brown, Jackie Morland, Red Robbins, Jesse Branson, Gerald Govan
• 74 Colonels - Gilmore, Issel

Bill Russell(67 Celtics, 68 Celtics**, 69 Celtics**)
Al Attles(73 Warriors, 75 Warriors**, 76 Warriors)
Cotton Fitzsimmons(81 Kings, 89 Suns, 90 Suns)
Mike Dunleavy Sr.(91 Lakers*, 99 Blazers, 00 Blazers)
Rudy Tomjanovic(94 Rockets**, 95 Rockets**, 97 Rockets)
Larry Bird(98 Pacers, 99 Pacers, 00 Pacers*)
Mike D'Antoni(05 Suns, 06 Suns, 18 Rockets)
Stan Van Gundy(05 Heat, 09 Magic*, 10 Magic)
Doc Rivers(08 Celtics**, 10 Celtics*, 12 Celtics)
Scott Brooks(11 Thunder, 12 Thunder*, 14 Thunder)
Frank Vogel(13 Pacers, 14 Pacers, 20 Lakers**)
Mike Budenholzer(15 Hawks, 19 Bucks, 21 Bucks**)
Brad Stevens(17 Celtics, 18 Celtics, 20 Celtics)

The 4x Club
Les Harrison(49 Royals, 51 Royals**, 52 Royals, 54 Royals)

• Team built around Bob Davies

Richie Guerin(66 Hawks, 67 Hawks, 69 Hawks, 70 Hawks)

• Zelmo Beaty, Lenny Wilkins, Lou Hudson

Larry Costello(70 Bucks, 71 Bucks**, 72 Bucks, 74 Bucks*)
Joe Mullaney(2 NBA[70 Lakers*, 71 Lakers], 2 ABA[73 Colonels*, 74 Stars*])

• 73 Colonels - Gilmore, Issel
• 74 Stars - Zelmo Beaty, Willie Wise, Jimmy Jones

Dick Motta(74 Bulls, 75 Bulls, 78 Bullets**, 79 Bullets*)
John MacLeod(76 Suns*, 79 Suns, 84 Suns, 88 Mavs)
Lenny Wilkins(78 Sonics*, 79 Sonics**, 80 Sonics, 92 Cavs)
Don Nelson(83 Bucks, 84 Bucks, 86 Bucks, 03 Mavs)
Rick Adelman(90 Blazers*, 91 Blazers, 92 Blazers*, 02 Kings)
George Karl(93 Sonics, 96 Sonics*, 01 Bucks, 09 Nuggets)
Flip Saunders(04 Wolves, 06 Pistons, 07 Pistons, 08 Pistons)
Tyronn Lue(16 Cavs**, 17 Cavs*, 18 Cavs*, 21 Clippers)

The 5x Club
Joe Lapchick(49 Knicks, 50 Knicks, 51 Knicks*, 52 Knicks*, 53 Knicks*)

• Carl Braun, Vince Boryla, Harry Gallatin, Max Zaslofsky, Dick McGuire, Nat Clifton, Connie Simmons

Fred Schaus(61 Lakers, 62 Lakers*, 63 Lakers*, 65 Lakers*, 66 Lakers*)
Tommy Heinsohn(72 Celtics, 73 Celtics, 74 Celtics**, 75 Celtics, 76 Celtics**)
Bill Fitch(76 Cavs, 80 Celtics, 81 Celtics**, 82 Celtics, 86 Rockets*)
Chuck Daly(87 Pistons, 88 Pistons*, 89 Pistons**, 90 Pistons**, 91 Pistons)
Rick Carlisle(03 Pistons, 04 Pacers, 11 Mavs**, 24 Pacers, 25 Pacers)

The 6x Club
Al Cervi(50 Nationals*, 51 Nationals, 52 Nationals, 54 Nationals*, 55 Nationals**, 56 Nationals)

• Team built around Dolph Schayes

Bill Sharman(4 NBA[67 Warriors*, 68 Warriors, 72 Lakers**, 73 Lakers*], 2 ABA[70 LA Stars*, 71 Utah Stars*])

• 70 LAS - George Stone, Mack Calvin, Craig Raymond, Bob Warren, Merv Jackson
• 71 UTAS - Zelmo Beaty, Willie Wise, Glen Combs, Merv Jackson, Ron Boone, Red Robbins, George Stone

K.C. Jones(75 Bullets*, 84 Celtics**, 85 Celtics*, 86 Celtics**, 87 Celtics*, 88 Celtics)
Billy Cunningham(78 Sixers, 80 Sixers*, 81 Sixers, 82 Sixers*, 83 Sixers**, 85 Sixers)
Jerry Sloan(92 Jazz, 94 Jazz, 96 Jazz, 97 Jazz*, 98 Jazz*, 07 Jazz)
Steve Kerr(15 Warriors**, 16 Warriors*, 17 Warriors**, 18 Warriors**, 19 Warriors*, 22 Warriors**)

The 7x Club
Red Holzman(56 Hawks, 69 Knicks, 70 Knicks**, 71 Knicks, 72 Knicks*, 73 Knicks**, 74 Knicks)
Alex Hannum(6 NBA[57 Hawks*, 58 Hawks**, 61 Nationals, 64 Warriors*, 67 Sixers**, 68 Sixers], 1 ABA[69 Oakland Oaks**])

• 57/58 Hawks - Bob Pettit, Cliff Hagen
• 61 Nationals - Dolph Schayes
• 64 Warriors - Wilt
• 69 Oaks - Built around ABA Rick Barry

Slick Leonard ABA(69 Pacers*, 70 Pacers**, 71 Pacers, 72 Pacers**, 73 Pacers**, 74 Pacers, 75 Pacers*)

• Mel Daniels, Roger Brown, Freddie Lewis, Bob Netolicky, George McGinnis

Erik Spoelstra(11 Heat*, 12 Heat**, 13 Heat**, 14 Heat*, 20 Heat*, 22 Heat, 23 Heat*)

(Nobody has exactly 8x)

The 9x Club
John Kundla(49 Lakers**, 50 Lakers**, 51 Lakers, 52 Lakers**, 53 Lakers**, 54 Lakers**, 55 Lakers, 57 Lakers, 59 Lakers*)

• The Mikan Dynasty

Larry Brown(3 ABA[73 Cougars, 75 Nuggets, 76 Nuggets*], 6 NBA[78 Nuggets, 94 Pacers, 95 Pacers, 01 Sixers*, 04 Pistons**, 05 Pistons*])

• 73 Cougars - Built around Billy Cunningham in his MVP year
• 75 Nuggets - Bobby Jones, Mack Calvin, Ralph Simpson, Mike Green
• 76 Nuggets - Bobby Jones, David Thompson, Dan Issel, Ralph Simpson

The 10x+ Club AKA The Rushmore
Gregg Popovich 10x(99 Spurs**, 01 Spurs, 03 Spurs**, 05 Spurs**, 07 Spurs**, 08 Spurs, 12 Spurs, 13 Spurs*, 14 Spurs**, 17 Spurs)

Pat Riley 12x(82 Lakers**, 83 Lakers*, 84 Lakers*, 85 Lakers**, 86 Lakers, 87 Lakers**, 88 Lakers**, 89 Lakers*, 93 Knicks, 94 Knicks*, 97 Heat, 06 Heat**)

Phil Jackson 14x(90 Bulls, 91 Bulls**, 92 Bulls**, 93 Bulls**, 96 Bulls**, 97 Bulls**, 98 Bulls**, 00 Lakers**, 01 Lakers**, 02 Lakers**, 04 Lakers*, 08 Lakers*, 09 Lakers**, 10 Lakers**)

Red Auerbach 15x(47 Capitols, 49 Capitols*, 53 Celtics, 54 Celtics, 55 Celtics, 57 Celtics**, 58 Celtics*, 59 Celtics**, 60 Celtics**, 61 Celtics**, 62 Celtics**, 63 Celtics**, 64 Celtics**, 65 Celtics**, 66 Celtics**)

Dang, cool data. It's like Larry Brown just couldn't stay still in his coaching life. Or maybe his style just wore out its welcome that fast.

f4p wrote:Dang, cool data. It's like Larry Brown just couldn't stay still in his coaching life. Or maybe his style just wore out its welcome that fast.

He worked behind the scenes to join the Knicks at their most dysfunctional when he was coaching a Pistons team in the NBA Finals.

How many coaches try to get off a team that is in a long run of contention to join a dumpster fire?

He was coaching a good Nets team and basically got fired, per MSG Knicks broadcast today, because he was secretly flirting with coaching Kansas behind the scenes.

How many coaches who are enjoying success in the pros try to go back to college?

He coached in NY, Kansas, Texas, California, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Michigan, NY (again), North Carolina, Texas (again), Italy and Tennessee.

How many coaches are willing to live in so many different places?

He was just a massive, massive head case. I don't think there is any other explanation. And by the end he was a parody of himself.

I've updated the OP.

Mark Daigneault is the newest member of the 1x club.
Tom Thibodeau and Chris Finch have both gradated from the 1x to the 2x club.
And Rick Carlisle has graduated from the 4x to the 5x club, joining such names as Chuck Daly and Bill Fitch.

Also of note, Thibs' 14 year gap between Final Four appearances is the fifth longest ever.

sp6r=underrated wrote:
He worked behind the scenes to join the Knicks at their most dysfunctional when he was coaching a Pistons team in the NBA Finals.

How many coaches try to get off a team that is in a long run of contention to join a dumpster fire?

He was coaching a good Nets team and basically got fired, per MSG Knicks broadcast today, because he was secretly flirting with coaching Kansas behind the scenes.

How many coaches who are enjoying success in the pros try to go back to college?

He coached in NY, Kansas, Texas, California, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Michigan, NY (again), North Carolina, Texas (again), Italy and Tennessee.

How many coaches are willing to live in so many different places?

He was just a massive, massive head case. I don't think there is any other explanation. And by the end he was a parody of himself.

I don't think head case is really the right word so much as I think he always wanted a new challenge. He won a title in the aba, ncaa and then in the nba. I think he just knew what he wanted to do and once he reached a goal it was time for him to leave and sometimes his time ran out before he wanted to go.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:

sp6r=underrated wrote:
He worked behind the scenes to join the Knicks at their most dysfunctional when he was coaching a Pistons team in the NBA Finals.

How many coaches try to get off a team that is in a long run of contention to join a dumpster fire?

He was coaching a good Nets team and basically got fired, per MSG Knicks broadcast today, because he was secretly flirting with coaching Kansas behind the scenes.

How many coaches who are enjoying success in the pros try to go back to college?

He coached in NY, Kansas, Texas, California, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Michigan, NY (again), North Carolina, Texas (again), Italy and Tennessee.

How many coaches are willing to live in so many different places?

He was just a massive, massive head case. I don't think there is any other explanation. And by the end he was a parody of himself.

I don't think head case is really the right word so much as I think he always wanted a new challenge. He won a title in the aba, ncaa and then in the nba. I think he just knew what he wanted to do and once he reached a goal it was time for him to leave and sometimes his time ran out before he wanted to go.

Head case applies when you begin actively looking for new work in year one of your current job.

sp6r=underrated wrote: Head case applies when you begin actively looking for new work in year one of your current job.

Its a subjective word so you can use it however you see fit. I'd say he did pretty well for himself though even if he liked to move around alot. Just don't think the headcase label really adds much of any context to who he is as a person.

Might require final appearance for leagues with less than 15 teams to come closer to equalizing the difficulty. It was almost a given for a decent team to make the ECF/WCF in an 8 or 9 team league but making the finals was an accomplishment.