2003 Duncan Finals Defensive Tracking: NETScromancer?

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2003 Duncan Finals Defensive Tracking: NETScromancer? 

Post#1 » by OhayoKD » Sat May 3, 2025 12:16 am

Last time we saw a finals clincher
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2451946
Now we watch a finals opener


Tim Duncan at his alleged peak against the New Jersey Nets. Let’s see how he looks.


Here are the countables we’re going to use:
Spoiler:
Paint-Protection. A lot of ink has been spilled arguing for it as the singularly most important component of an individual defender’s ability to help his team prevent the other guys from scoring. It’s also an aspect of the game that is poorly quantified, especially pre-data ball. Blocks are by and large the primary measure people use, but a look at usage (rim-load, measured by PPs (Primary Protections)) reveals that even players who offer very little rim-protection can be made to look like centerpieces if one limits their evaluation to counting how often contact is made with the ball:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=113791345#p113791345

That said, I think rim-load has a glaring blind-spot. What if the reason a player is used as a paint-protector…because the opponent wants them to be used as one?

Corzine and Oakley both were the primary or co-primary paint protectors on a boatload of possessions above. But is Corzine’s relativity to Oakley there the Bull’s doing, or their own? Jokic spends alot of time defending the paint, even compared to other bigs. Is he a great rim-protector? Or is he just being hunted by opposing offenses?

To answer these queries, I present the latest product of Eye-Test, Inc:

Irrational Avoidances (IA).

The following conditions must be met to rack up an Irrational Avoidance…

1) More of your team’s defenders are on the opposing side of the floor for a sequence (There can be multiple sequences per possession)
2) Despite this the attacker/attacking team chooses to attack the side with more defenders
3) This decision is made after a reset or in the half-court/semi-transition

Note, “the floor” here really describes the area of space a set of defenders covers, not the literal floor. Additionally the sides are determined using the vantage point of the initial ball-handler. If you can imagine a symmetric line being drawn from the ball-handler’s POV to the basket…being to the left or right of said line determines what side you’re on. I will also exclusively look at how a sequence starts.

A “sequence” ends whenever there is a pause in the ball-handlers movement or the possession finishes.



Here’s what we’re adding:

EPP - Effective primary protections - This is when a PP is deemed effective
IPP - Ineffective Primary Protections - This is when a PP is deemed ineffective

PPDs - Primary Perimeter defendings - This credits a player as the primary or co-primary perimeter defender for a possession

EPPD - Effective Primary Perimeter defendings - When a PPD is deemed effective
IPPD - Ineffective Primary Perimeter defendings - When a PPD is deemed ineffective



There is ore grey area here than with the creation stuff I think. Vetting and perhaps some discussion on what should be counted or not counted is welcomed. If you just want to see the final numbers you can control+F for “Tally and Analysis”.

Let’s begin.


Possession 1 - 1:17

Nets win the tip-off and break. Duncan seals off Martin at the basket as Kidd hits a jumper.

(Duncan - 1 PP)
.

Possession 2 - 2:12

Duncan falls back into the paint with Robinson and Kidd hits a jumper.

(Duncan - 2 PP)

Possession 3 - 2:57

Kidd outlets to Martin to start break. Martin gets stuffed strongside by Duncan

(Duncan - 3 PP, 1 EPP)


Possession 4 - 4:46

Duncan splits time inside and out, getting a weak IA with the ball-handler choosing to toss it to the more populous side of the floor after Duncan switches onto Martin (1). Possession ends with a clanked jumper.

Possession 5 - 5:14

Duncan intercepts a Kidd pass around half-court as the nearest defender to the basket offering both effective paint-protection and perimeter defense with the same move. Efficient.

(Duncan - 4 PP, 2 EPP, 1 PPD, 1 EPPD)

Possession 6 - 5:40

Duncan spends almost as much of the possession in the paint as Robinson in addition to deterring an inside pass to Martin by the basket on an island and then offering cover at the basket as Robinson intercepts and funnels Jefferson out of bounds. On the inbound Duncan contests martin well and martin bricks.

(Duncan - 5 PP)

Possession 7 - 6:24

Robinson’s the clear primary inside. Duncan would count as the secondary in addition to closing a potential passing window as he switches off of Martin.


Possession 8 - 7:14

Duncan starts on Kenyon Martin who passes off the ball. Duncan spends the rest of the possession inside as SA’s last line. Kittle hits a pull up. He’s a co-primary here mostly by default.

(Duncan - 6 PP)

Possession 9 - 7:37

Duncan is the primary here spending most of the possession in the paint and stuffing Kittles strongside. Kittles gets the rebound of his shot and misses a floater. Duncan collects an easy board.

(Duncan - 7 PP, 3 EPP)

Possession 10 - 8:07

The Mavs break with Kidd trying to take advantage of Duncan being caught up court. Parker buys Duncan enough time to get back into the paint. The Mavs swing the ball to the opposite elbow and Duncan follows, going around Martin, to put extra pressure on the ball-handler (couldn’t make out who). Duncan then switches onto Kenyon and collects a weak IA as the ball is thrown to Richard Jefferson (2). RJ hits the jumper.


Possession 11 - 8:50

Duncan picks up Collins at the free-throw line and spends the rest of the possession inside, including a significant chunk as the Spurs only paint defender. Martin shoots a jumper and Duncan seals off Collins to secure the board.

(Duncan - 8 PP, 4 EPP)

Possession 12 - 9:10

Duncan jogs back unaware Ginobli is charging his direction and gets spun around as a co-primary outside. Luckily his teammates cover and Duncan grabs an easy rebound.

(Duncan - 2 PPD, 1 IPPD)

Possession 13 - 10:10

Duncan spends the possession at or by the paint venturing out to pressure Kidd to give up the ball and then helping on Williams as he posts up prompting a turn around floater. It misses and Duncan gets yet another easy board.

(Duncan - 9 PP, 4 EPP)

Possession 14 - 10:54

Duncan is too far ahead to help on the break but his teammates have things covered.

Possession 15 - 11:10

Basically the same thing.

Possession 16 - 11:27

Duncan backs into the paint and then moves to help Bowen who immediately fouls. On the inbound Duncan is there to meet Aaoron Williams who catches it inside and Collins throws it to Kidd who shoots a jumper. Duncan preps to seal off Collins for the board but Martin bumps him. Collins is unable to capitalise and a Spur rolls Duncan the ball.

(Duncan -10 PP)

Possession 17 - 14:04

Duncan starts the possession watching Williams low-post. Duncan then helps on a Rodgers post-up only to get backdoored by Martin.

(Duncan - 11 PP, 1 IPP)

Possession 18 - 14:45

Duncan watches Williams low-post again and then stuffs Harris strongside. The broadcast skips over what happens next but the announcer tells us Martin missed a jumper.

(Duncan - 12 PP, 5 EPP)

Possession 19 - 16:12

Duncan spends the possession near the basket. He watches rogers hit a jumper.

(Duncan - 13 PP)

Possession 20 - 17:00

Duncan starts the possession the closest to the basket and then provides cover as Kidd tries to force his way inside. Kidd kicks the ball out for a turnover.

(Duncan - 14 PP)

Possession 21 - 17:24

Duncan starts low post again.and then comes to the basket to seal off Williams. Rogers hits the jumper.

(Duncan - 15 PP)


Possession 22 - 18:18

Duncan watches from inside as Kidd misses another jumper.

(Duncan - 16 PP)

Possession 23 - 19:43

Duncan spends the possession inside culminating in challenging a Harris layup strongside. Harris misses but Williams tips it in.

(Duncan - 17 PP, 6 EPP)

Possession 24 - 20:18

Duncan spends most of the possession inside and seals off Williams creating an easy board for Ginobli.

(Duncan - 18 PP, 7 EPP)

Possession 25 - 21:30

Duncan starts the possession as the only Spur inside and is up against Williams when he gets the ball. Williams bounces it inside to Harris who wins a foul facing two of Duncan’s teammates.

(Duncan - 19 PP)

Possession 26 - 23:43

Duncan channels Hakeem, helping stall two drives from the free-throw line, contesting a potential shot, contesting a second potential shot and then ending his showcase with a chasedown block. Unfortunately Jackson fouls, rendering the last part an unofficial contribution.

(Duncan - 20 PP, 3 PPD, 2 EPPD)

(Duncan subs out for Robinson)
(Duncan comes back in at 29:22)

Possession 27 - 29:44

Duncan spends the possession watching Martin at the free-throw line. Help comes from the perimeter and Martin misses a jumper.


Possession 28 - 31:07

Duncan starts the possession inside and then ventures out to guard Kidd. Kidd passes it off and Duncan goes back inside to watch Mutembo. Rogers bricks the jumper and Duncan seals off Mutembo but Martin has position on Robinson and catches the ball. Eventually Martin gets the ball back from Kidd low-post and Duncan comes to meet him. Martin bounces it to Mutembo who Duncan challenges strongside forcing a miss at the cost of a face-shot. Rogers renders Duncan’s efforts moot with a tip-in.

(Duncan - 21 PP, 8 EPP)

Possession 29 - 32:04

Duncan spends the possession inside and seals off Mutembo as Kidd’s jumper bounces on the rim. Martin, uncovered, removes any doubt pushing the ball in despite Duncan’s best efforts.

(Duncan - 22 PP)


Possession 30 - 32:30

Duncan patrols the free-throw line as Robinson takes over inside stuffing a layup and fighting off two Nets to secure the board.


Possession 31 - 33:39

Duncan is too far up to intervene with the Nets break but Robinson has it covered.


Possession 32 - 33:56

Duncan presses Mutombo at the opposing baseline but Mutombo is able to escape the pressure and Duncan runs back. Duncan retreats to the low-post and is the closest Spur to the basket as Robinson leaves for a Kenyon Martin post-up. Martin drives and Duncan moves to cover but backs off once Martin has Robinson beat. Whether he was too late to contest or backed off a shot he could potentially have challenged, I’m counting that as Ineffective.

(Duncan - 23 PP, 1 IPP)

Possession 33 - 34:37

Duncan starts the possession on Martin low-post. Martin gets the ball and gets a bit of separation from Duncan with a couple of spins to get off a floater. Robinson swats the attempt into Duncan’s hands.

(Duncan - 24 PP)

Possession 34 - 36:18

Duncan starts the possession with Martin on the block and ends up on an island near the basket. Kidd bricks a jumper and Duncan seals off Martin giving Robinson an easy board.

(Duncan - 25 PP, 9 EPP)

Possession 35 - 37:14

Duncan starts the possession at the free-throw line and matches up with Martin when he gets the ball. Martin passes it off. Duncan initially follows Martin but drops to deny a potential connection to a cutting Kidd. Kidd relocates and gets the ball for a jumper but Duncan races to contest and Kidd misses badly.

(Duncan - 26 PP, 10 EPP, 4 PPD, 3 EPPD)

Possession 36 - 38:12

With Kidd getting free of his man thanks to a screen, Duncan comes out and goes for the ball with an outstretched hand. Kidd swings it to his teammate who throws it to Collins. Duncan is there to help but Collins finds Martin and Duncan misses the ball entirely with his challenge.

(Duncan - 27 PP, 2 IPP, 5 PPD)


Possession 37 - 38:38

Duncan runs back as the Nets break but the possession ends early with Jefferson committing an offensive foul.

Possession 38 - 39:35

Duncan starts the possession in the paint. Kidd uses a screen to get free of his man and Duncan comes up to meet him prompting Kidd to bounce the ball to Collins who wins free-throws fas Manu arrives too late for the charge.

(Duncan - 6 PPD)

Possession 39 - 40:49

Duncan is too far up to intervene but his teammates stop the break.

Possession 40 - 41:10

Kidd leads the break and Duncan runs back eventually finding Martin inside. Kidd’s jumper bounces off the rim and Duncan rises to prevent Jefferson from getting the board. The ball goes out of bounds and it’s Spurs ball.

(Duncan - 28 PP, 11 EPP)


Tally and Analysis

Paint-Protection - Duncan

Spoiler:
-> 28 PPs
-> 11 EPPs
-> 2 IPPs
-> 2 IAs


Perimeter Defense - Duncan

Spoiler:
-> 6 PPD
-> 3 EPPDs
-> 1 IPPDs


During Duncan’s first 40 possessions, I gave him, 28 possessions as a primary or co-primary rim-protector of which he was deemed effective in 11 and ineffective in 2. He was also given 6 possessions as a primary or co–primary perimeter defender, of which he was deemed effective in 3 and ineffective in 1. Additionally, Duncan was given 2 Irrational Avoidances. This means per Possession, Duncan averaged, 0.675 PPs, 0.275 EPPs, 0.05 IPPs, 0.15 PPDs, 0.075 EPPDs, 0.025 IPPDs, and 0.05 IAs.

Here is how other players did using this system:

Spoiler:
(note: IAs were not counted for the games top10alltime tracked)

Shaq

2000 Finals Game 2

.16 PP
.06 EPP
.06 IPP
.0875 PPDs
.0125 EPPDs
.075 IPPDs

.
Lebron

During Lebron’s first 40 possessions of the 2009 ECF, I gave him, 10 possessions as a primary or co-primary rim-protector of which he was deemed effective in 2 and ineffective in 1. Lebron also was given 18 possessions as a primary or co–primary perimeter defender, of which he was deemed effective in 6 and ineffective in 3. Additionally, Lebron was given 2 Irrational Avoidances. This means per Possession, Lebron averaged, 0.25 PPs, 0.05 EPPs, 0.025 IPPs, 0.45 PPDs, 0.15 EPPDs, 0.075 IPPDs, and 0.05 IAs.

During his first 40 possessions of the 2007 Finals, I gave Lebron 5 possessions as a primary or co-primary rim-protector of which he was deemed effective in 3 and ineffective in 1. Lebron also was given 16 possessions as a primary or co–primary perimeter defender, of which he was deemed effective in 9 and ineffective in 3. Additionally Lebron was given 9 Irrational Avoidances. This means per Possession, Lebron averaged, 0.125 PPs, 0.075 EPPs, 0.025 IPPs, 0.4 PPDs, 0.225 EPPDs, 0.075 IPPDs, and 0.225 IAs

uring Lebron’s first 40 possessions of game 7 of the 2016 finals, I gave him, 12 possessions as a primary or co-primary rim-protector of which he was deemed effective in 4 and ineffective in 0. Lebron also was given 12 possessions as a primary or co–primary perimeter defender, of which he was deemed effective in 5 and ineffective in 5. Additionally, LBJ was given 3 Irrational Avoidances. This means per Possession, Lebron averaged, 0.3 PPs, 0.1 EPPs, 0.00 IPPs, 0.2 PPDs, 0.05 EPPDs, 0.075 IPPDs, and 0.075 IAs.



”A” grade MJ
During Jordan’s first 40 possessions of game 5 of the 91 finals (given a grade of “a”), I gave him, 0 possessions as a primary or co-primary rim-protector of which he was deemed effective in 0 and ineffective in 0. Jordan also was given 19 possessions as a primary or co–primary perimeter defender, of which he was deemed effective in 5 and ineffective in 5. Additionally, MJ was given 3 Irrational Avoidances. This means per Possession, MJ averaged, 0.00 PPs, 0.00 EPPs, 0.00 IPPs, 0.475 PPDs, 0.125 EPPDs, 0.125 IPPDs, and 0.05 IAs.

During Jordan’s first 40 possessions of Game 3 of the 93 ECF, I gave him 5 possessions as a primary or co-primary rim-protector of which he was deemed effective in 0 and ineffective in 1. Jordan also was given 11 possessions as a primary or co–primary perimeter defender, of which he was deemed effective in 2 and ineffective in 1. Additionally, MJ was given 3 Irrational Avoidances. This means per Possession, MJ averaged, 0.125 PPs, 0.00 EPPs, 0.025 IPPs, 0.275 PPDs, 0.05 EPPDs, 0.025 IPPDs, and 0.05 IAs.

”Normal” Jordan
(1989 Game 5 vs the Cavs) This would mean per-possession Top10alltime gave Jordan 0.12 PPs, 0.00 EPPs, and 0.09 IPPs along with .12 PPDs, 0.013 EPPDs, and 0.1 IPPs.

(1991 Game 2 vs the Lakers) Defensively this would give Jordan, per-possession, around 0.143 PPDs, 0.01 EPPDs, 0.02 IPPDs, .11 PPs, 0.03 EPPs and .08 IPPs.


Kareem
Defense

.05 PPDs
.00 EPPDs
.05 IPPDs
.32 PPs
.11 EPPs
.16 IPPs


Kidd
]During Kidd’s first 40 possessions of Game 6 of the 2003 Finals, I gave him, 3 possessions as a primary or co-primary rim-protector of which he was deemed effective in 1 and ineffective in 1. Kidd was also given 10 possessions as a primary or co–primary perimeter defender, of which he was deemed effective in 6 and ineffective in 3. Additionally Kidd was given 2 Irrational Avoidances. This means per Possession, Kidd averaged, 0.075 PPs, 0.025 EPPs, 0.025 IPPs, 0.25 PPDs, 0.15 EPPDs, 0.075 IPPDs, and 0.05 IAs.


Hakeem

During Hakeem’s first 40 possessions of the 6th game of the 97 WCF, I gave him 27 possessions as a primary or co-primary rim-protector of which he was deemed effective in 13 and ineffective in 7. Hakeem also was given 4 possessions as a primary or co–primary perimeter defender, of which he was deemed effective in 3 and ineffective in 1. Additionally Hakeem was given 4 Irrational Avoidances. This means per Possession, Hakeem averaged, 0.675 PPs, 0.325 EPPs, 0.175 IPPs, 0.1 PPDs, 0.075 EPPDs, 0.025 IPPDs, and 0.1 IAs.


Here’s how other players fared in terms of Paint-usage (only Duncan and Drob (1999 finals) had efficacy tracked)

Spoiler:
The only other guards to have their PPs counted are Micheal Jordan, Sam Vinceint, and BJ Armstrong. Jordan tallied 3 PPs in the first 40 possessions of game 3 of the 1988 ECSF between New York and Chicago. Sam Vincient tallied 2. Jordan tallied 1 PP in the first 40 possessions of the 4th game of the 1991 ECF. Armstrong also tallied 1.

For a comparison to wings(over the first 40 defensive possessions for their respective teams), Oakley, Pippen, and Grant tallied 13, 8, and 6 PPs respectively in the aforementioned 88 game. In the aforementioned 91 game, Pippen and Grant had 14 PPs each. In the final game of the 94 ECSF between New York and Chicago, Oakley and Pippen tallied 15 PPs and Grant tallied 7. In the 86 Finals, Reid tallied 5.

During the Spurs’ first 40 defensive possessions, I gave Duncan, 21 possessions as a primary or co-primary rim-protector of which he was deemed effective in 6 and ineffective in 4. Robinson was given 16 PPs as a primary or co-primary rim-protector of which he was deemed effective in 8 and ineffective in 6. Both had an irrational avoidance. When they shared the court Duncan and Robinson had 17 PPs each with Duncan being deemed effective in 4 and Robinson being deemed effective in 8. Both were deemed ineffective in 4. Robinson additionally had 1 IA

For Bigs, Over 37 possessions Duncan averaged .57 PPs, 0.16 EPPs, 0.11 IPPs, and 0.03 IAs.

Over 31 possessions Robinson averaged 0.58 PPs, 0.26 EPPs, 0.13 IPPs. 0.032 IAs.

Over 22 Possessions in the final game of the 94 ECSF vs Chicago, Ewing had 13 PPs and 3 IAs giving him, per possession, .59 PPs and 1.4 IAs.


This is the first time we’ve applied this system to a dominant defensive big at their consensus defensive peak and perhaps unsurprisingly he looks the best.

Going by the numbers this stretch is the high-water mark in terms of paint-usage and combined paint/perimeter usage. It is simultaneously the high-water mark in terms of effectiveness with the ratio of effective:ineffective possessions being bigger than for any other player tracked. I’ll note this system ignores the multiple points where Duncan was too slow to contribute to defending the break at all and but even factoring those 2 additional plays I do not think any of the stretches of play tracked match the combination of high usage and efficacy Duncan had here. On the flipside Duncan’s tracked “production” here is probably bit into a bit by Robinson.

I’m not surprised he was more effective than Shaq, I am however surprised by the gap in usage, particularly inside. He fries 97 Hakeem with paint efficacy and seems to add a bit on the perimeter.

He doesn’t really get approached by any of the tracked performances for wings unless you presume perimeter usage to have more value, and we don’t really need to bother with the guards. .



Miscellaneous

Surprisingly little from an IA perspective.

Differentiated between “weak”’ and “strong” IAs as promised though I’d want to see more examples of them being a high-volume phenomena (like with 2007 Lebron) before I commit to listing the two separately

If I do start making it an “official” thing here is what distinguishes strong and weak:

Spoiler:
As a final note, I think I’m going to make some tweaks to my tracking system starting with IAs:

1. Differentiate between “strong” and “weak” IAs. A strong IA must either have the opposite side have 4 defenders, or the player getting the IA must be directly between the ball-handler and the basket and closer to the top of the key than the sideline.


Will probably want to give this a test-run at some point
Spoiler:
2. Input a defensive counterpart for DTOS (defenders taken out) called DKI (defenders kept in) to function as an inclusive measure of help and team defense. I’ll save the details of that for another thread.

I’m feeling like doing Wade or Kawhi after I finish my Duncan tracking. Kawhi in particular might be an interesting test-run for revamped IA tracking. Wade is considered the greatest shot-blocking guard by many so it would be interesting to see if that manifests in unusually high paint-usage.



Not sure what to track next. 2015 Lebron has been requested but I can’t find full game footage for the Warriors series. Looking at something from Miami is also an option. Also interested in finishing tracking Jordan’s defense during the 91 finals though part of me wants to flip the side of the field I’m focusing on and focus on Stockton/Isiah.

That said, if there are any specific games/series/seasons for some other player you want tracked you can say so below, and I’ll take it into consideration.
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
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Re: 2003 Duncan Finals Defensive Tracking: NETScromancer? 

Post#2 » by therealbig3 » Sat May 3, 2025 10:41 am

Duncan was a monster with a really strong defensive oriented team around him, but for some reason, this series was a lot closer than it should have been. The Nets pushed this to 6 games, and were up double digits in 3rd quarter of game 6, before the big comeback by the Spurs. Granted, they barely won the two games they did (by 3 and 1 points IIRC).

Also, this is historically one of the weakest Finals opponents ever, particularly offensively. Just something to consider when discussing Duncan’s defense. The 03 Nets didn’t have reliable shooting or half court creation, and almost entirely depended on transition offense to generate anything high percentage. Their best offensive player by far was Jason Kidd.

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