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I got thinking about Big 3s

Shai, Jalen and Chet

And Thunders original big 3.

Jdub is clearly better to me. Defensive gap is way too big and Thunder James Harden was still under-utilized on offense to showcase his offensive prowess. Also, he just got way better as an offensive player on the Rockets.

Offense-only I'd give a slight edge to 3rd year Harden over 3rd year Williams.

Add in defense and it's Williams easily.

mdonnelly1989 wrote:I got thinking about Big 3s

Shai, Jalen and Chet

And Thunders original big 3.

To this point, ranking the 6 players in question as they played at the time:

1. Shai
2. Durant
3. Harden
4. Westbrook
5. JDub
6. Chet

Now, the new Big 3 is a better fit than the old, and basically all Big 3's are better fits than one that had Westbrook, but it was absolutely stunning how good each of Durant, Westbrook & Harden looked in '11-12 - almost as stunning as watching the Thunder decide Harden wasn't actually that good and trade him for peanuts.

TheGOATRises007 wrote:Jdub is clearly better to me. Defensive gap is way too big and Thunder James Harden was still under-utilized on offense to showcase his offensive prowess. Also, he just got way better as an offensive player on the Rockets.

I would disagree with that assessment. It's true Harden wasn't given any accolades on the Thunder and the franchise themselves apparently didn't see it, but at the time there was a vocal group raving about Harden. The most prominent of which was Jeff Van Gundy on TV who basically spent the whole Western Conference playoffs repeatedly telling the world that Harden was playing like an all-star an then some, but there was also a massive thread about it at the time on this board.

Was he under-utilized on the Thunder? Yes.
Was he playing "that good" on the Thunder in the opportunities he had? Also yes.
Were there analytical indicators signaling him having extreme impact? Also, also yes.

All that said, if I have SGA, I'd rather rather have either JDub or Chet than any of the old Big 3.

Doctor MJ wrote:

TheGOATRises007 wrote:Jdub is clearly better to me. Defensive gap is way too big and Thunder James Harden was still under-utilized on offense to showcase his offensive prowess. Also, he just got way better as an offensive player on the Rockets.

I would disagree with that assessment. It's true Harden wasn't given any accolades on the Thunder and the franchise themselves apparently didn't see it, but at the time there was a vocal group raving about Harden. The most prominent of which was Jeff Van Gundy on TV who basically spent the whole Western Conference playoffs repeatedly telling the world that Harden was playing like an all-star an then some, but there was also a massive thread about it at the time on this board.

Was he under-utilized on the Thunder? Yes.
Was he playing "that good" on the Thunder in the opportunities he had? Also yes.
Were there analytical indicators signaling him having extreme impact? Also, also yes.

All that said, if I have SGA, I'd rather rather have either JDub or Chet than any of the old Big 3.

Harden did have signs of him being an all-star.

There were no signs of him being one of the greatest offensive players ever as he blossomed into at Houston.

TheGOATRises007 wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

TheGOATRises007 wrote:Jdub is clearly better to me. Defensive gap is way too big and Thunder James Harden was still under-utilized on offense to showcase his offensive prowess. Also, he just got way better as an offensive player on the Rockets.

I would disagree with that assessment. It's true Harden wasn't given any accolades on the Thunder and the franchise themselves apparently didn't see it, but at the time there was a vocal group raving about Harden. The most prominent of which was Jeff Van Gundy on TV who basically spent the whole Western Conference playoffs repeatedly telling the world that Harden was playing like an all-star an then some, but there was also a massive thread about it at the time on this board.

Was he under-utilized on the Thunder? Yes.
Was he playing "that good" on the Thunder in the opportunities he had? Also yes.
Were there analytical indicators signaling him having extreme impact? Also, also yes.

All that said, if I have SGA, I'd rather rather have either JDub or Chet than any of the old Big 3.

Harden did have signs of him being an all-star.

There were no signs of him being one of the greatest offensive players ever as he blossomed into at Houston.

harden was extremely effecient in a small role in the 2012 playoffs. Not sure why you'd assume the capacity to keep that up for a bigger role developed miraculously in the 2012 off-season

OhayoKD wrote:

TheGOATRises007 wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:
I would disagree with that assessment. It's true Harden wasn't given any accolades on the Thunder and the franchise themselves apparently didn't see it, but at the time there was a vocal group raving about Harden. The most prominent of which was Jeff Van Gundy on TV who basically spent the whole Western Conference playoffs repeatedly telling the world that Harden was playing like an all-star an then some, but there was also a massive thread about it at the time on this board.

Was he under-utilized on the Thunder? Yes.
Was he playing "that good" on the Thunder in the opportunities he had? Also yes.
Were there analytical indicators signaling him having extreme impact? Also, also yes.

All that said, if I have SGA, I'd rather rather have either JDub or Chet than any of the old Big 3.

Harden did have signs of him being an all-star.

There were no signs of him being one of the greatest offensive players ever as he blossomed into at Houston.

harden was extremely effecient in a small role in the 2012 playoffs. Not sure why you'd assume the capacity to keep that up for a bigger role developed miraculously in the 2012 off-season

It didn't

Which is my point

It was the 2015 season where Harden took a leap

His first 2 seasons at Houston were not like that

pretty tough. if you guy by ability to anchor an offense, harden 2011 and 2012. if you go by ability to be a part of a great team, jdub 2024 and 2025.

if you go pure impact metrics 2011 and 2012 blew jdub out of the water, he was carrying scrubs to some of the most productive lineups in the nba back then. he was already arguably a 1st option level point guard back then. his xRAPM in those seasons were incompatible with his role.

jdub has a different skillset. he's not a 1st option. he won't carry productive lineups not even vs bench players and he doesn't come close to harden's performance on impact metrics. but he's just a swiss army knife both offensively and defensively and can be assigned to a multitude of tasks two ways, while being elite in close to anything on the defensive end.