RealGM

Who is the better player?

This one is a no brainer in favor of SGA in my opinion. If we were comparing him to 2009 Wade then it would be a different conversation.

SGA is better than Wade was in 2006. Wade was better individually in those playoffs than SGA has been in these playoffs so far. But being better over the course of a relatively small number of games doesn’t mean he actually was better, and I think the difference in their regular season performances is enough to make me pretty confident 2025 SGA > 2006 Wade.

Shai and it's not that close.

I don’t get the “not close” claims. 2006 Wade’s regular season is underrated because the perception at the time was he was still a #2 to Shaq, or at best a 1b, but the shift in their primacy was already happening in 2005, and if Wade doesn’t get the fluke rib injury they probably beat the Pistons with him leading the way, and who knows what happens against the Spurs.

As players, SGA is a slightly better midrange shooter and significantly better 3-point threat, but he’s quite a bit less physically dominant both in the post and on drives. Both great at drawing fouls. Both great defenders.

SGA is getting great help from his team so far in this postseason, I’d have to see the Thunder pushed in the Finals and SGA being the difference maker to even consider an “SGA and it’s not close” judgment. Or if they aren’t pushed, at least he has a dominant series as the clear catalyst. As is it’s clearly close, and this is assuming he finishes the job.

EDIT: also this board was tearing him apart while he was struggling just one round earlier against the Nuggets. So definitely some recency bias here. If Jokic had any help besides an overrated Murray and a one legged Gordon, well, just saying.

2006 wade isnt even peak wade

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Tim_Hardawayy wrote:I don’t get the “not close” claims. 2006 Wade’s regular season is underrated because the perception at the time was he was still a #2 to Shaq, or at best a 1b, but the shift in their primacy was already happening in 2005, and if Wade doesn’t get the fluke rib injury they probably beat the Pistons with him leading the way, and who knows what happens against the Spurs.

As players, SGA is a slightly better midrange shooter and significantly better 3-point threat, but he’s quite a bit less physically dominant both in the post and on drives. Both great at drawing fouls. Both great defenders.

SGA is getting great help from his team so far in this postseason, I’d have to see the Thunder pushed in the Finals and SGA being the difference maker to even consider an “SGA and it’s not close” judgment. Or if they aren’t pushed, at least he has a dominant series as the clear catalyst. As is it’s clearly close, and this is assuming he finishes the job.

EDIT: also this board was tearing him apart while he was struggling just one round earlier against the Nuggets. So definitely some recency bias here. If Jokic had any help besides an overrated Murray and a one legged Gordon, well, just saying.

Slightly better midrange shooter is a insane understatement

falcolombardi wrote:
Slightly better midrange shooter is a insane understatement

It's certainly not any more insane than claiming the comparison between the two players is "not even close". Looking at their shot charts, the main difference is Shai's shot diet looks like your typical modern day player's where they remove all long 2's and replace them with closer 2's or 3's. If you look at 2014-15 Wade's shot chart, the year after LeBron left and close to the start of the more modern era (Curry's Warriors have arrived by this point, Heat were winning with small ball), it's closer to Shai's, less long two's, more shorter range two's that are higher percentage. And both guys do well relative to league average, though again Shai is better which I already conceded.

In the playoffs, they're roughly equal with Shai again having the more modern shot chart.

The largest difference between them other than the 3 ball, which I did concede Shai was a lot better at, is that Shai dominates that little area in the paint up to the foul line, while Wade was better at actually finishing at the basket. In functional terms, Shai is clearly better at shot mechanics (hence 3's and free throw %), Wade is better at creating space and finishing.

Wade shredded some absolutely elite playoff defenses that year. Put some respect on his name.

canada_dry wrote:2006 wade isnt even peak wade

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

This probably isn't peak SGA either though....

Tim_Hardawayy wrote:As players, SGA is a slightly better midrange shooter and significantly better 3-point threat, but he’s quite a bit less physically dominant both in the post and on drives. Both great at drawing fouls. Both great defenders.
.

That... is the understatement of the decade, my dude. I'm not sure why you're trying to gloss over this element, but there is a WORLD of difference between these two as mid-range scorers.

I guess I am going to be the party pooper because I seriously think Wade has a nice argument here.

The 2006 run by Wade is vaunted, but I don't know if people realize Wade was playing as a healthy MVP level guy in the 2005 playoffs. If he doesn't get injured, we might not have had to see him wait until 06 to get such praise from the masses.

2005 Dwyane Wade pre-injury in the ‘05 playoffs (IA per 75):

•) 28.6 points
•) 6.3 rebounds
•) 7.0 assists (5.5 morey assists)
•) 1.3 bad pass tov.
•) 1.3 steals
•) 1.3 blocks
•) +4.6 opp. adjusted rTS%
•) Heat had a +2.8 rORtg w/ Wade on-court

Wade was already playing at a level that I believe you could say was easily on par with current SGA. Relative to the environment they were in, I think Wade's scoring holds more weight because as the game has gotten more efficient, it is my belief it is harder people to create separation as just pure scores, because 4% rTS% just isn't as valuable now as it was in 06 (however the potential for playmaking to boost offensive value has never been higher).

Then,
Wade in the 06 postseason, Inflation Adjusted (adjusted to a 110-league average).

•) 29.1 points
•) 6.0 rebounds
•) 5.8 assists
•) 2.2 steals
•) 1.1 blocks
•) +7.6 opp. adjusted rTS%
•) +22.2 on-off net swing

And then Wade left off from his 2006 championship run by playing like the best player in the world until injury the very next season:

Dwyane Wade in 2007 before his injury (IA per 75):

•) 30.4 points
•) 5.0 rebounds
•) 8.3 assists
•) 1.6 bad pass turnovers
•) 2.2 steals
•) 1.4 blocks
•) +4.6 relative TS%
•) Heat had a +2.3 rORtg w/ Wade on-court

What is even more remarkable about Wade's 06 PS run that he won a championship with was that his PS Cast's AuPM/G was a solid negative (Relative AuPM value of the 2nd through the 8th-best player on a team, among players who logged at least 40 percent of team’s minutes. Value is relative to +0.75.). This means that his cast was below average (0 is average), by a notable margin, yet he was able to take such a team to championship heights at such a young age.

For reference for how historical a feat this is, AuPM/G goes back to 1997 and goes until 2021. Wade's 06 supporting cast is the WEAKEST EVER to win a championship in the stat's history according to the article on the Backpicks site. 06 Wade's run was nothing short of amazing.

Wade also showed good rim-protection instincts early on in his career. He was like a pseudo-big out there, and I think he added notable value there. I think the defensive edge Wade has over Kobe this season, swings things more so in his direction.

Kevin Pelton ranked the greatest PS runs ever based on a metric he developed and 06 Wade was actually higher than any of Kobe's PS runs for reference. As I laid out in the Shai vs Kobe threat, I don't think this Shai run clears why Kobe did.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23651740/ranking-50-greatest-individual-postseasons-modern-nba-history


Shai's been great this PS run, but I don't see him as getting clear of Wade


Shai Gilgeous-Alexander averages for the 2025 NBA playoffs so far (per 75):

▫️29.8 points
▫️5.7 rebounds
▫️7.0 assists
▫️1.6 steals
▫️0.5 blocks
▫️58.0 TS% (+1.4 opponent-adjusted rTS%)
▫️-1.0 average opponent-rDRtg quality

Despite Shai being tiers above Wade as a shooter, part of what allowed SGA to have a better RS than any that Wade ever had was his ability to get to the rim and finish. In the RS, he was at 5.8 rim FGA per 75 possessions and shooting 70% on shots at the rim. However, this PS, Shai has only shot 57% at the rim on 5 rim FGA per 75 possessions. I think this is big to someone like me who likes the stability of a player who can get to the rim and finish. I believe this can help relieve volatility.

One final thing I want to highlight is just how good of a scorer Wade was over a number of years. Even including his post-peak years such as 12 and 13, from 05-13,

Wade in the PS averaged an IA 26.8 pts per 75 on rTS% of 3.4%. 4704 Minutes Played

He had a ScoreVal of 1.1 during this period.

Shai's ScoreVal this PS run for reference is 0.8.

So Wade seemed to be continually able to generate more value from scoring to date versus a Shai, which is both of their biggest strengths. I think with today's schemes, Shai might have reached levels as a playmaker that Wade hasn't. As I alluded to earlier, I think with modern spacing, there is the potential to have playmaking value like never before, and I think Shai has done respectable job of capitalizing on the gravity of his presence on the floor
However, Wade-lead offensives are a bit more impressive to date.

Defensively, I think of Wade has just an upgraded Shai in everything other than Wade might chase steals a bit too much. But Wade's stronger, more gifted laterally, can get up better vertically to contest at the rim, and I trust Wade to guard 1-3 more.

Heat fan here

SGA by so much it's not funny

I voted SGA, but loved Lukas post, and it would be close if Wade got a 07 postseason and continuity without injuries, he could reach a higher level for sure. 2009 Wade didnt have a team sadly.

Is Morey assist pass to a layup or three? That's pretty clever

Let's wait for a couple of weeks until we make a final verdict. Wade had a historic performance in the 2006 Finals. That has to significantly factor into any evaluation IMO.