RealGM

A majority of the time the top 5 in some order

Kareem
Bill
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem


Followed by Moses and David however I imagine Jokic is already ahead of both Moses and Jokic

I think Jokic is already going Hakeem a run for his money for 6th but just on the outside with only 1 ring

Jokic has really 5 superstar seasons, the last 5 seasons, and has some good ones before that which weren't at that level. He needs a few more to really be a sure thing for top 6.

Robinson's two way play do puts him slightly ahead and Moses could be slightly ahead also.

Yes he is and I honestly could see him surpassing Shaq and Hakeem for me.

Probably, and if not it's just a matter of time. The only 5s who are ahead (assuming Duncan isn't a 5) are Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem, and then I'm not sure who else has a case.

Assuming Duncan is a 5 especially if you are looking only at modern playstyles, probably not, unless you are one of those who dismiss Wilt, Russell (and of course Mikan). Jokic v. David Robinson or Moses can certainly be argued for Jokic.

Prob needs some more longevity but I think he will get there. I would already take his peak over Russell or Wilt in absolute terms, maybe Shaq as well.

Only 2 centers with more MVP shares.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/nba_mvp_shares.html

I think the answer depends on how you rank Mikan. If you rank him.highly like I do, Jokić is top 7. Otherwise, he's top 6. I feel like Jokić has surpassed the Admiral.

i see essentially no argument for any of the non-big 5 over jokic at this point (depending on how you feel about mikan i guess). jokic has ripped off essentially as good of a 5 years as anyone has ever had, meaning his peak is higher than any non-big 5 except maybe 79-83 moses, and even then i'm taking 21-25 jokic. i guess mikan has a crazy 8 year stretch but adjusting for era and i'm taking jokic best 5 over mikan's best 5. and the fact the peak has been 5 years and i'm not sure drob or ewing or whoever else really has a 5 year peak, means season 3, 4, and 5 of this jokic peak are getting compared to non-peak years by the other guys, which means it's crushing any of those non-peak seasons. throw in already having an alpha championship and several other playoff runs that are crazy good, including pushing okc to 7 games, and the playoff gap actually exceeds the regular season gap, imo. i'm not sure any amount of extra seasons for the non-big 5 are enough to keep them ahead of jokic at this point.

It depends if you count Duncan as a center, but I have Jokic ahead of Moses and Robinson.

mdonnelly1989 wrote:A majority of the time the top 5 in some order

Kareem
Bill
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem


Followed by Moses and David however I imagine Jokic is already ahead of both Moses and Jokic

Yeah, other than a Mikan debate, I'd have Jokic ahead of Moses, David, and others not mentioned.

NZB2323 wrote:It depends if you count Duncan as a center, but I have Jokic ahead of Moses and Robinson.

True. If we're just making a list of greatest Bigs, then Duncan & Garnett are certainly above Jokic on my GOAT list.

f4p wrote:i see essentially no argument for any of the non-big 5 over jokic at this point (depending on how you feel about mikan i guess). jokic has ripped off essentially as good of a 5 years as anyone has ever had, meaning his peak is higher than any non-big 5 except maybe 79-83 moses, and even then i'm taking 21-25 jokic. i guess mikan has a crazy 8 year stretch but adjusting for era and i'm taking jokic best 5 over mikan's best 5. and the fact the peak has been 5 years and i'm not sure drob or ewing or whoever else really has a 5 year peak, means season 3, 4, and 5 of this jokic peak are getting compared to non-peak years by the other guys, which means it's crushing any of those non-peak seasons. throw in already having an alpha championship and several other playoff runs that are crazy good, including pushing okc to 7 games, and the playoff gap actually exceeds the regular season gap, imo. i'm not sure any amount of extra seasons for the non-big 5 are enough to keep them ahead of jokic at this point.

David Robinson came into the NBA after 4 years of college so a bit older and ripped off 7 straight years where his lowest scoring average was 23.2 and his lowest MVP vote was 6th. I think that qualifies as a 5 year peak. Then he had the big injury and while he came back to have 4 more good years as a second option to Tim Duncan (leading the NBA in Drtg in 3 of them), his minutes and role were reduced.

Doctor MJ wrote:

NZB2323 wrote:It depends if you count Duncan as a center, but I have Jokic ahead of Moses and Robinson.

True. If we're just making a list of greatest Bigs, then Duncan & Garnett are certainly above Jokic on my GOAT list.

I think I’d have Jokic higher than KG, but I know that some people on this board rank KG really high.

penbeast0 wrote:

f4p wrote:i see essentially no argument for any of the non-big 5 over jokic at this point (depending on how you feel about mikan i guess). jokic has ripped off essentially as good of a 5 years as anyone has ever had, meaning his peak is higher than any non-big 5 except maybe 79-83 moses, and even then i'm taking 21-25 jokic. i guess mikan has a crazy 8 year stretch but adjusting for era and i'm taking jokic best 5 over mikan's best 5. and the fact the peak has been 5 years and i'm not sure drob or ewing or whoever else really has a 5 year peak, means season 3, 4, and 5 of this jokic peak are getting compared to non-peak years by the other guys, which means it's crushing any of those non-peak seasons. throw in already having an alpha championship and several other playoff runs that are crazy good, including pushing okc to 7 games, and the playoff gap actually exceeds the regular season gap, imo. i'm not sure any amount of extra seasons for the non-big 5 are enough to keep them ahead of jokic at this point.

David Robinson came into the NBA after 4 years of college so a bit older and ripped off 7 straight years where his lowest scoring average was 23.2 and his lowest MVP vote was 6th. I think that qualifies as a 5 year peak. Then he had the big injury and while he came back to have 4 more good years as a second option to Tim Duncan (leading the NBA in Drtg in 3 of them), his minutes and role were reduced.

Fair enough. Regular season Robinson always looks like a peak. But even then, really it's 94 to 96 when he basically goes 30 PER, 0.290 WS48, and 10 BPM, a step above the previous 4 seasons. And even then, jokic's last 5 seasons beat out those 3 seasons from drob in every category, though I would call it a tie with modern load management and more heliocentrism inflating all of these stats a little. But of course jokic would win in the playoffs.

Robinson also came back from injury in 1998 with a 28 PER and led the entire league in WS48 and BPM. A statistical marvel drob was.

Well there's Mikan. But setting him aside as most do, yeah, not seeing the argument against. Well at least not outside of longevity whatever

He might be one of the best/if not the best Big man offensive engine ever and with his floor rising the nuggets since 20-25 ( while being elite in a playoff setting )I don't see how he would not be in the top 6 C all time. His peak and Prime are already in top echelon talk so the last thing will be about how long he can sustain this level of capacity/impact

These are the only Center I would definitely put above
Kareem
Bill Russell
SHAQ
Hakeem
Wilt

I'd go:

1. Hakeem
2. Duncan
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Jokic
6. Russell
7. Robinson
8. Wilt

iggymcfrack wrote:I'd go:

1. Hakeem
2. Duncan
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Jokic
6. Russell
7. Robinson
8. Wilt

Are there reasoning why the 60-70s player ( aka. Kareem /bill/wilt )are so low. Is it because you don't Rank relative to era and base on actual ability/Skillsets of a player? Or you had other criteria