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Create the best 12-man roster of players who didn't make a single all-star team. Your goal is to take down all-time GOAT teams (ie Steph at PG, MJ at SG, Lebron at SF, Shaq and C, etc) for the fate of the world. Consider fit. You can choose current players who have not YET made an all-star team so that there's more variety. You don't have to go full 12, but would be nice if you could.

PG - Derek Harper, Derek White
SG - Byron Scott, Jamal Crawford
SF - Shane Battier, Michael Cooper, Bruce Bowen
PF - OG Anunoby, Rick Mahorn
C - Myles Turner, Mark Eaton, Marcus Camby

I had to go with a very defensive group at every position (minus J-cross). Mark Eaton is clearly for rim protection only even though Turner and Camby are good in their own right. But Eaton was truly elite in the paint and I'll need him for the Shaqs and slashers. The trio of Battier, Cooper and Bowen can guard the wings. Bowen, along with Rick Mahorn are our dirty players needed against more talented competition.

The majority of the scoring will come from the guards, with the 2 Dereks being combo guards. Our rebounding is weak outside of Camby but that's the price we have to pay without all-stars.


Other Honorable Mentions (retired) to help with research since current players are pretty straightforward:

Lamar Odom
Rod Strickland
Robert Horry
Cedric Maxwell
Sam Perkins
Arvydas Sabonis
Andre Miller
Jason Terry
Toni Kukoc
Ron Harper
Rony Seikaly
Corey Maggette
Šarūnas Marčiulionis
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
Nene
John Starks
Richard Jefferson
Jalen Rose
Monta Ellis
Josh Smith
Danilo Gallinari
Hassan Whiteside
Andrew Bogut

PG: Derek Harper | Andre Miller
SG: Byron Scott | Jason Terry
SF: Lamar Odom | Shane Battier | Michael Cooper
PF: Toni Kukoc | Bo Outlaw | Robert Horry
C: Arvydas Sabonis | Marcus Camby

I thought the question is about an actual team that played together, which would be a challenging one

So I'll add my analytic take. Using a RAPM VORP based on +/- that goes back ton '96-97 and projecting from there, here are the top 12 players from these past 4 decades who never made all-star or All-NBA:

1. Lamar Odom
2. Andre Miller
3. Shane Battier
4. Nene
5. Derek Fisher
6. George Hill
7. Sam Perkins
8. Thaddeus Young
9. Ron Harper
10. Jason Terry
11. Hedo Turkoglu
12. Toni Kukoc

And just for good measure, #13 would be Robert Horry.

Worth noting that this is a regular season metric, so anyone we think of as showing out in the playoffs you might want to give a boost to. My immediate thought would be to take Horry instead of Young.

Trying to make a roster of these 12:

PG - Andre Miller, George Hill
SG - Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Jason Terry
SF - Shane Battier, Hedo Turkoglu, Toni Kukoc
PF - Lamar Odom, Sam Perkins, Robert Horry
C - Nene

The lack of a true defensive anchor is clearly a concern for this roster. Looking down my list, first guy like that is Serge Ibaka, and I could see putting him in place for, say, Sam Perkins.

Of course none of that is about the highest peaks. Among this group, I'd say Odom peaked highest, and I'd be hoping to capture some magic with him above all others.

I'll note that several of a number of these guys had good cases to actually be named all-star in my book so I don't necessarily agree with the fact that they are eligible here, but am glad to give them this shout out.

That said, there are guys who peaked higher than at least most of the guys on this list who I didn't include despite their eligibility. I'd say that Jamal Murray is the most dramatic of the group either retired or active. Other current players that come to mind are Aaron Gordon, OG Anunoby, Ivica Zubac, Derrick White, Mikal Bridges, and Franz Wagner.

jojo4341 wrote:Create the best 12-man roster of players who didn't make a single all-star team. Your goal is to take down all-time GOAT teams (ie Steph at PG, MJ at SG, Lebron at SF, Shaq and C, etc) for the fate of the world. Consider fit. You can choose current players who have not YET made an all-star team so that there's more variety. You don't have to go full 12, but would be nice if you could.

PG - Derek Harper, Derek White
SG - Byron Scott, Jamal Crawford
SF - Shane Battier, Michael Cooper, Bruce Bowen
PF - OG Anunoby, Rick Mahorn
C - Myles Turner, Mark Eaton, Marcus Camby

I had to go with a very defensive group at every position (minus J-cross). Mark Eaton is clearly for rim protection only even though Turner and Camby are good in their own right. But Eaton was truly elite in the paint and I'll need him for the Shaqs and slashers. The trio of Battier, Cooper and Bowen can guard the wings. Bowen, along with Rick Mahorn are our dirty players needed against more talented competition.

The majority of the scoring will come from the guards, with the 2 Dereks being combo guards. Our rebounding is weak outside of Camby but that's the price we have to pay without all-stars.


Other Honorable Mentions (retired) to help with research since current players are pretty straightforward:

Lamar Odom
Rod Strickland
Robert Horry
Cedric Maxwell
Sam Perkins
Arvydas Sabonis
Andre Miller
Jason Terry
Toni Kukoc
Ron Harper
Rony Seikaly
Corey Maggette
Šarūnas Marčiulionis
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
Nene
John Starks
Richard Jefferson
Jalen Rose
Monta Ellis
Josh Smith
Danilo Gallinari
Hassan Whiteside
Andrew Bogut

Cool thread. Just a thought on some of the guys mentioned that I didn't mention in my post:

Byron Scott - understandable inclusion, I'm not super-excited
Jamal Crawford - also understandable, but no way for me
Michael Cooper - I love this choice! The original 3 & lock down D who was also a rim runner!
Bruce Bowen - understandable inclusion and I could definitely see finding him a slot on the roster depending on the other choices
Rick Mahorn - maybe, I tend to like my role player champions to be the guys who play others off the court rather than the other way around
Myles Turner - I like it. Here's hoping he can find his shooting groove in the series he's in right now!
Mark Eaton - he just only works for earlier eras, but if you wanted an avatar for the ultimate '80s big big, it's him.
Marcus Camby - understandable choice, but the analytics are not kind to him the way one might have thought

And then just picking from that longer list below:

Cedric Maxwell - He'll always have that Finals MVP
Arvydas Sabonis - A completely different level of player in his pre-NBA prime than the others we're discussing, but still a good inclusion for his NBA year.
Andrew Bogut - love Bogut but he made All-NBA so I wouldn't really consider him here.

Mark Eaton actually has a selection

Off the top of my head, not particularly impressed with Scott and Crawford, and Eaton and Bowen have virtually no offensive game. We've seen that doesn't work well with coaches who can take advantage of it. Battier didn't score but had the game to be college player of the year; Horry and Kukoc were good shooters.

I'd have
Sabonis, Nene, Turner
Perkins, Horry
Jefferson, Kukoc, Battier
Ron Harper, Cooper
Derek Harper, White

Sabonis gives you the size for the Shaq types and the ability to play 5 out plus better two way play and playmaking than your choices. You have more shot creation with Cleveland era Ron Harper, Jefferson, and Kukoc; Perkins and Horry give you stretch 4 ability (OG isn't a bad choice either, just not sure he can handle long post-up 4's like Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett from earlier eras). You still can't beat a true Dream Team, there's a reason these guys weren't as highly decorated, but you can make a tough out.

durantbird wrote:Mark Eaton actually has a selection

So does John Starks.

There are a couple of guys like Bogut and Petrovic who never made All-Star but did make All-NBA. I'd omit those just to maintain the spirit of the exercise. I'll also stick to retired players.

C - Nene
PF - Odom
SF - Turkoglu
SG - Battier
PG - Harper

Bench: Sabonis, Ibaka, Kukoc, Jefferson, Green, Cooper, Terry

Mmkay, no current prime guys or guys who ever made an All-NBA team, looking to keep to the spirit of the question.

Sticking to guys from the last ~25 years that I can really remember.

Rotation, 8 deep regularly:
George Hill (32) / Jason Terry (16)
Wesley Matthews (32) / Jason Terry (16)
Hedo Turkoglu (32) / Shane Battier (16)
Danilo Gallinari (32) / Shane Battier (16)
Nene (32) / Steven Adams (16)

Non regulars:
Ricky Rubio
Danny Green
Jae Crowder
Serge Ibaka

Odom/Prince the two I least like leaving off - Prince just not quite enough offensive punch, and Odom I couldn't make the team concept work in the modern game.

Derek Harper / George Hill
Jamal Murray / Jason Terry / Mike Bibby
OG Anunoby / Danilo Gallinari / Shane Battier
Lamar Odom / Myles Turner
Arvydas Sabonis / Jonas Valanciunas

Almost in: Kirk Hinrich

EDIT: thought the All NBA players are disqualified. So Drazen surely gets in, maybe Bogut as well. And Rod Strickland in place of Bibby

KC Jones I think warrants consideration, REALLY good defender and just a good glue guy in general.

Sailor Haumea wrote:KC Jones I think warrants consideration, REALLY good defender and just a good glue guy in general.

Absolutely, and really worth appreciating his part in the Russell-Jones collaboration beginning in college.

Sailor Haumea wrote:KC Jones I think warrants consideration, REALLY good defender and just a good glue guy in general.

Certainly a few guys from that era Celtics worth a consideration - Ramsey and Sanders come to mind as well.

I'd shy away from KC because there's already such a dearth of top end offensive talent for our potential squads, I'm not sure we can afford KC at the 1.

Thinking on it, not too hard to flip to Odom. Would keep most roster spots the same, put Odom in for Gallo and switch the center rotation to Serge Ibaka/Channing Frye.

I want to avoid non shooting centers with Odom.

Guys I’m looking to include in the nearish future - Derrick White, OG Anunoby, Aaron Gordon, Myles Turner. Jamal Murray the big fish that could let us completely switch up team building philosophy.

PG Strickland/Bogues/Paul Pressey
SG Ron Harper/ Drazen Petrovic/Vinnie Johnson
SF Oscar Schimdt/Nick Anderson/Derrick McKey
PF Lamar Odom/Micheal Cage/Mahorn
C Sabonis/Bogut/Elmore Smith

Warspite wrote:PG Strickland/Bogues/Paul Pressey
SG Ron Harper/ Drazen Petrovic/Vinnie Johnson
SF Oscar Schimdt/Nick Anderson/Derrick McKey
PF Lamar Odom/Micheal Cage/Mahorn
C Sabonis/Bogut/Elmore Smith

Pressey and Drazon are great choices in their short primes. Elmore Smith and Rod Strickland are two of the bigger empty stats players in NBA history, today's equivalent would be Ayton.

I am surprised CJ McCollum hasn’t been mentioned. Current player, but unlikely to make all star team at this point of his career. CJ has to be considered among the best players without an all star nod. Going on 10 consecutive seasons averaging at least 20 ppg, many on playoff bound teams, and not a single all star selection.

NW BBALL wrote:I am surprised CJ McCollum hasn’t been mentioned. Current player, but unlikely to make all star team at this point of his career. CJ has to be considered among the best players without an all star nod. Going on 10 consecutive seasons averaging at least 20 ppg, many on playoff bound teams, and not a single all star selection.

The one guy I really considered over Jason Terry in my guard rotation.