RealGM

This post is a compilation of all the tracking that has been done recently for Jordan during the 1991 NBA Finals on Realgm. Will update as more is done (The full series still hasn’t been looked at for the more inclusive inputs).

Perimeter defense

Shot Defense

Courtesy of Djoker (with correction from Lebronny and top10alltime):


Usage and Efficacy

Top10Alltime/OhayoKD (Games 1, 2, and the first 40 possessions of game 5)

PPD - makes when you’re the primary or co-primary perimeter defender in a possession
EPPD - effective PPD
IPPD - ineffective PPD

Game 1


Game 2


Game 5


Paint Defense

Usage and Efficacy

Top10alltime/OhayoKD (Games 1, 2, and the first 40 poss of game 5)

PP - makes when you’re the primary or co-primary perimeter defender in a possession
EPP - effective PP
IPP - ineffective PP

Game 1


Game 5


Misc.

Help Defense

Top10alltime (game 1)
HPD - When a player is the primary or coprimary help defender
EHPD - Effective HPD
IHPD - Ineffective HPD

(I am assuming, think Elpollo_14 came up with this one)



Will leave interpretation for the comments.

Thanks Ohayo. This is what I'd say by analysing the games how Jordan did:

Like a guard, he's quite mediocre for interior defense (which is rim protection/deterrence, and post defense). His perimeter and POA defense is not all that (he is around elite in only these), he is only good in on ball and off ball defensively. Not that great on help defense, or switchability. He is not even that versatile on defense. Also just good not great at help side and weak side defense. Due to his gambling, he wasn't a good recovery defender, and also not that great cleaner. Mid roamer and dealing with physicality.

Magic was very clearly cooking Jordan defensively. All he can do was backing down Jordan and passing out, and he would have cooked him. About 30% of his plays (rough estimate), were being helped defensively. Magic was just too big for Jordan. Jordan didn't have that great of a defensive series against Magic, this series has made me get lower on Jordan's peak. (Have him top 7 peak ever)

Top10alltime wrote:Thanks Ohayo. This is what I'd say by analysing the games how Jordan did:

Like a guard, he's quite mediocre for interior defense (which is rim protection/deterrence, and post defense). His perimeter and POA defense is not all that (he is around elite in only these), he is only good in on ball and off ball defensively. Not that great on help defense, or switchability. He is not even that versatile on defense. Also just good not great at help side and weak side defense. Due to his gambling, he wasn't a good recovery defender, and also not that great cleaner. Mid roamer and dealing with physicality.

Magic was very clearly cooking Jordan defensively. All he can do was backing down Jordan and passing out, and he would have cooked him. About 30% of his plays (rough estimate), were being helped defensively. Magic was just too big for Jordan. Jordan didn't have that great of a defensive series against Magic, this series has made me get lower on Jordan's peak. (Have him top 7 peak ever)

Very interesting. I have a theory late 90's Jordan was a better defender than early 90's because of his slower speed and less of a reliance on using that speed to gamble.

But I'm curious about 88-90 Jordan. Considering Jordan had mental flaws like those described ITT even by 1991, the chance of hm being betterin the late 80's due to superior athleticism is increased. I think 89 Jordan could easily be his peak on both ends.

OhayoKD wrote:This post is a compilation of all the tracking that has been done recently for Jordan during the 1991 NBA Finals on Realgm. Will update as more is done (The full series still hasn’t been looked at for the more inclusive inputs).

Perimeter defense

Shot Defense

Courtesy of Djoker (with correction from Lebronny and top10alltime):

Spoiler:

dFG%: 13/23 (56.5%)
dTS%: 48 points on 72.5 %TS (13/23 FG, 20/23 FT)
14 turnovers forced (14 steals, 1 charge, 1 shot clock violation)
4 deflections
12 shooting fouls committed
10 blow by's
7 blocks

vs. Magic Johnson
dTS%: 34 points on 87.3 %TS (8/12, 16/17)
4 turnovers forced (2 steals, 1 charge, 1 shot clock violation)

Usage and Efficacy

Top10Alltime/OhayoKD (Games 1, 2, and the first 40 possessions of game 5)

PPD - makes when you’re the primary or co-primary perimeter defender in a possession
EPPD - effective PPD
IPPD - ineffective PPD

Game 1

Spoiler:

Final tally
16 PPD, .228 per poss
4 EPPD, .06 per poss
8 IPPD, .12 per poss

Game 2

Spoiler:

9 PPD, .143 per poss
1 EPPD, .02 per poss
6 IPPD, .1 per poss

Game 5

Spoiler:

19 PPD, .475 per poss
5 EPPD, .08 per poss
5 IPPD, .08 per poss

Paint Defense

Usage and Efficacy

Top10alltime/OhayoKD (Games 1, 2, and the first 40 poss of game 5)

PP - makes when you’re the primary or co-primary perimeter defender in a possession
EPP - effective PP
IPP - ineffective PP

Game 1

Spoiler:

11 PPs, .16 per poss
2 EPPs, .03 per poss
8 IPPs, .11

Game 2
[spoiler]
7 PPs, .11 per poss
2 EPPs, .03 per poss
5 IPPs, .08 per poss

Game 5

Spoiler:

0 PPs, 0 per poss
0 EPPs, 0 per poss
0 IPPs, 0 per poss

Misc.

Help Defense

Top10alltime (game 1)
HPD - When a player is the primary or coprimary help defender
EHPD - Effective HPD
IHPD - Ineffective HPD

(I am assuming, think Elpollo_14 came up with this one)

Spoiler:

5 HPD, .07 per poss
2 EHPD, .035 per poss
2 IHPD, .035 per poss

Will leave interpretation for the comments.

Didn’t know it was this poor vs.Magic or underwhelming overall. I’m assuming it was better during the 1991 as a whole.

MJ looks underwhelming in rim protection because everyone except me in this thread only counts primary rim protection. Coming over to help and contesting and even blocking shots doesn't count for these guys...

Historically speaking, MJ is at least 99th percentile among non-bigs in protecting the rim.

Djoker wrote:MJ looks underwhelming in rim protection because everyone except me in this thread only counts primary rim protection. Coming over to help and contesting and even blocking shots doesn't count for these guys...

Historically speaking, MJ is at least 99th percentile among non-bigs in protecting the rim.

Jordan is just underwhelming in rim protection (and about all other aspects of defense). That's what it is..

And you mentioning blocked shots is just a testament to his ATG defensive playmaking. That's what it is..

From what I saw and have read about since this series, MJ did a fine job after game 2 of those Finals. Pippen continued to help out but for the most part Jordan was the primary defending against Magic. He earned the finals MVP all in all.

ShotCreator wrote:

Top10alltime wrote:Thanks Ohayo. This is what I'd say by analysing the games how Jordan did:

Like a guard, he's quite mediocre for interior defense (which is rim protection/deterrence, and post defense). His perimeter and POA defense is not all that (he is around elite in only these), he is only good in on ball and off ball defensively. Not that great on help defense, or switchability. He is not even that versatile on defense. Also just good not great at help side and weak side defense. Due to his gambling, he wasn't a good recovery defender, and also not that great cleaner. Mid roamer and dealing with physicality.

Magic was very clearly cooking Jordan defensively. All he can do was backing down Jordan and passing out, and he would have cooked him. About 30% of his plays (rough estimate), were being helped defensively. Magic was just too big for Jordan. Jordan didn't have that great of a defensive series against Magic, this series has made me get lower on Jordan's peak. (Have him top 7 peak ever)

Very interesting. I have a theory late 90's Jordan was a better defender than early 90's because of his slower speed and less of a reliance on using that speed to gamble.

But I'm curious about 88-90 Jordan. Considering Jordan had mental flaws like those described ITT even by 1991, the chance of hm being betterin the late 80's due to superior athleticism is increased. I think 89 Jordan could easily be his peak on both ends.

Fwiw Top-10 also did a game from the 1989 playoffs:

Top10alltime wrote:

Djoker wrote:MJ looks underwhelming in rim protection because everyone except me in this thread only counts primary rim protection. Coming over to help and contesting and even blocking shots doesn't count for these guys...

Historically speaking, MJ is at least 99th percentile among non-bigs in protecting the rim.

Jordan is just underwhelming in rim protection (and about all other aspects of defense). That's what it is..

And you mentioning blocked shots is just a testament to his ATG defensive playmaking. That's what it is..

Well the implicit hypothesis from Djoker here is that Jordan spends more possessions as a secondary paint-protector than his wing counterparts. Doesn't really fit my recollection but we may as well document and see. Would be alot less time intensive so I'm not opposed/