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Top 3... Magic, Curry, Isiah.

Rest of the pack...

Stockton
SGA
Oscar
Kidd
Payton
Nash
Billups
Dennis Johnson
Lenny Wilkins
Bob Cousy
Rose
Westbrook

Does SGA's MVP and chip put him above the rest of the pack to #4 or #5 on the PG GOATs?

Why would Isiah rank 3rd there?

atlantabbq99 wrote:Top 3... Magic, Curry, Isiah.

Rest of the pack...

Stockton
SGA
Oscar
Kidd
Payton
Nash
Billups
Dennis Johnson
Lenny Wilkins
Bob Cousy
Rose
Westbrook

Does SGA's MVP and chip put him above the rest of the pack to #4 or #5 on the PG GOATs?

I wouldnt even be sure isiah is better than lowry

tsherkin wrote:Why would Isiah rank 3rd there?

Isiah, the hardest road to an NBA championship ever... prime Jordan, prime Bird, prime Magic and he did it twice

Where is Chris Paul? Oscar? West?

No. How can anyone even entertain this today?

PistolPeteJR wrote:No. How can anyone even entertain this today?

He easily belongs in top 5 peaks/primes combos, is just missing the longevity

nybluemeadow wrote:

tsherkin wrote:Why would Isiah rank 3rd there?

Isiah, the hardest road to an NBA championship ever... prime Jordan, prime Bird, prime Magic and he did it twice

I am sure it was isiah carrying them and not their elite defense and balanced offense

nybluemeadow wrote:

tsherkin wrote:Why would Isiah rank 3rd there?

Isiah, the hardest road to an NBA championship ever... prime Jordan, prime Bird, prime Magic and he did it twice

You mean Bird who missed whole season and the playoffs, Jordan with no help around him and injured Magic?

1989 run is one of the easiest in the league history.

70sFan wrote:

nybluemeadow wrote:

tsherkin wrote:Why would Isiah rank 3rd there?

Isiah, the hardest road to an NBA championship ever... prime Jordan, prime Bird, prime Magic and he did it twice

You mean Bird who missed whole season and the playoffs, Jordan with no help around him and injured Magic?

1989 run is one of the easiest in the league history.

They also played Milwaukee without their two best players: Terry Cummings (All-NBA and All-Star that season) and Paul Pressey.

70sFan wrote:

nybluemeadow wrote:

tsherkin wrote:Why would Isiah rank 3rd there?

Isiah, the hardest road to an NBA championship ever... prime Jordan, prime Bird, prime Magic and he did it twice

You mean Bird who missed whole season and the playoffs, Jordan with no help around him and injured Magic?

1989 run is one of the easiest in the league history.

To be fair though, the year before he was one very controversial foul call away from winning the title, and that run went through 88 MVP Jordan, the last year of Bird's prime, and healthy Magic.

OldSchoolNoBull wrote:To be fair though, the year before he was one very controversial foul call away from winning the title, and that run went through 88 MVP Jordan, the last year of Bird's prime, and healthy Magic.

They were a legit title squad, to be sure. It's just that calling that run in 89 one of the toughest ever is laughable, that's all. Two things, both independently true.

falcolombardi wrote:

PistolPeteJR wrote:No. How can anyone even entertain this today?

He easily belongs in top 5 peaks/primes combos, is just missing the longevity

But that wasn't the question.

I think it takes a lot away from what other guards have done to say that SGA is already top 5. 3-5 year prime, 3x 1st team, 1 mvp, 1 fmvp. It's impressive at his age but still a ways to go imo. Doing these sorts of things before a guy turns 30 is kind of a waste. How do you compare 3 great years from SGA to Payton's 9 straight all nba/all def?

OldSchoolNoBull wrote:

70sFan wrote:

nybluemeadow wrote:
Isiah, the hardest road to an NBA championship ever... prime Jordan, prime Bird, prime Magic and he did it twice

You mean Bird who missed whole season and the playoffs, Jordan with no help around him and injured Magic?

1989 run is one of the easiest in the league history.

To be fair though, the year before he was one very controversial foul call away from winning the title, and that run went through 88 MVP Jordan, the last year of Bird's prime, and healthy Magic.

True, Pistons were legit - they just didn't have a hard title run in 1989. I also wouldn't rave about beating 1988 Bulls, they were mediocre.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:I think it takes a lot away from what other guards have done to say that SGA is already top 5. 3-5 year prime, 3x 1st team, 1 mvp, 1 fmvp. It's impressive at his age but still a ways to go imo. Doing these sorts of things before a guy turns 30 is kind of a waste. How do you compare 3 great years from SGA to Payton's 9 straight all nba/all def?

Is apples to oranges but at the same time is kind of...obvious? That barring injury/sudden ageing declines shai trajectory is easily on pace to blow payton career out of the water and i feel that even if he retired tomorrow is not unlikely he would end up higher on all time lists than payton

Cavsfansince84 wrote:How do you compare 3 great years from SGA to Payton's 9 straight all nba/all def?

I mean, I think his value is quite obviously higher than Payton's; that doesn't seem to be in doubt, even if it is only a third the time. They've been to the Finals the same number of times and Shai has reached considerably higher heights. Shai's got more All-NBA 1st Teams, been top-2 in the MVP race in multiple years (Payton didn't manage that), and there's not even a little bit of a comparison as a scorer.

Food for thought.

falcolombardi wrote:

Cavsfansince84 wrote:I think it takes a lot away from what other guards have done to say that SGA is already top 5. 3-5 year prime, 3x 1st team, 1 mvp, 1 fmvp. It's impressive at his age but still a ways to go imo. Doing these sorts of things before a guy turns 30 is kind of a waste. How do you compare 3 great years from SGA to Payton's 9 straight all nba/all def?

Is apples to oranges but at the same time is kind of...obvious? That barring injury/sudden ageing declines shai trajectory is easily on pace to blow payton career out of the water and i feel that even if he retired tomorrow is not unlikely he would end up higher on all time lists than payton

For some I'm sure but for how many idk. If his career ended tomorrow I think he'd basically be Walton 2.0(though higher for health) and many people including myself wouldn't have Walton in their top 75 or even 100 for obvious reasons. I mean I get that some people for their own reasons just aren't into length of prime or longevity when it comes to how they rank players but for others it just matters.

tsherkin wrote:

Cavsfansince84 wrote:How do you compare 3 great years from SGA to Payton's 9 straight all nba/all def?

I mean, I think his value is quite obviously higher than Payton's; that doesn't seem to be in doubt, even if it is only a third the time. They've been to the Finals the same number of times and Shai has reached considerably higher heights. Shai's got more All-NBA 1st Teams, been top-2 in the MVP race in multiple years (Payton didn't manage that), and there's not even a little bit of a comparison as a scorer.

Food for thought.

His peak value I'd agree. Career value? I wouldn't agree. Maybe someone has a corp style ranking they could throw out since I don't have one handy but as of now I wouldn't rank Shai higher than Payton.

Cavsfansince84 wrote: His peak value I'd agree. Career value? I wouldn't agree. Maybe someone has a corp style ranking they could throw out since I don't have one handy but as of now I wouldn't rank Shai higher than Payton.

Career value is tougher, but ultimately, as a franchise, if I got 3 years of what SGA accomplished or 9 years of what Payton did, I'd take SGA's last 3 seasons, personally.