RealGM

Use whatever criteria you like.

Think Magic is a lock. Then went with West as my tentative pick over Kobe for Laker lifers.

Even though he was before my time, I feel West is a lock when you consider his GM role.

Bron and Bronny

But actually Magic and Kobe I would think

Magic and Kobe with West as a close 3rd

OP on suicide watch if current results were final.

Warned for personal attack - CF

Kobe and Magic

Magic and Kareem, Kobe and West close third/fourth (really don't think you can go wrong with anyone of these 4), followed by Shaq.

Shaq, purely as a Laker, should probably rank behind Mikan who was the biggest winner in Laker history and got the franchise off the ground, and Elgin Baylor who wasn't as good a player but was more important to the team. The Lakers probably would have failed as a franchise in the post Mikan days if Elgin hadn't come to save the day.

Depends on your criteria. But if it is importance to the Laker franchise, then it would be Magic, Kobe, Mikan, Kareem, Baylor, West, Shaq. If it is best player during their tenure as a Laker with longevity included, then it would be Magic, West, Kareem, Kobe, Mikan, Shaq, Baylor.

Interesting topic - Comparing Kobe and West, who was better in what ways?

Think west was better on both ends, though not by much.

migya wrote:Interesting topic - Comparing Kobe and West, who was better in what ways?

Think west was better on both ends, though not by much.

I think West at his best was a little more valuable overall relative to his era than Kobe at his best. Not sure how much that's from offense or defense specifically (haven't compared the two in a while -- maybe a separate thread?), but I do think West did better at combining his offensive and defensive peak into a single stretch than Kobe did.

I'm open to the argument that, if you combined Kobe's defensive peak when he was young with his offensive peak when he was older, he'd be better.

Kobe was definitely healthier and more durable.

I do think Kobe played in a stronger era, although the importance of that varies based on your criteria (some people are modernists who want to compare the goodess of eras; others just do era-relative), and I do think Kobe played in an era that was more favorable to perimeter players (so the fact that West so so valuable still despite the big-man-centric rules might be a good counter if you do think his era was weaker).

Kobe definitely has more raw longevity than West, although evaluating longevity relative to era is tricky (West might be less injury prone in a later era with better tools/training/medicine, might join the NBA younger, might leave the NBA later), and although I do think some of Kobe's longevity is overrated (I think 97–99 and 13–16 really don't add much at all in terms of championship odds for Kobe).

I do think Kobe achieved more, from a resume perspective, team success perspective, and story perspective (although West himself has pretty great story in overcoming all his losses and demons to finally win a ring in 72). This matters a lot to some people, and matters exactly 0% to others (although people who don't intentionally value these things might still be subconsciously biased by these things).

Interesting comparison. Two players with some interesting similarities (both Lakers legends; both combo/lead guards who scored a lot, but also had some well-rounded abilities on defense and playmaking and off ball too) and some interesting differences (era; situation / team success; some of their shot diet; value from peak vs prime vs longevity; etc.). I think they're both Top 20 players, but you can get a lot of variation in their rankings, based on whether you value peak vs prime vs longevity, go era-relative vs modernist / era-absolutist, value resume vs not.

I went by a criteria of their body [cumulative, or semi-so] of work in a Laker uniform. By that guiding principle, I voted for Magic and Kobe.

I could see replacing Kobe with West if also counting his contributions as a GM, but I was considering only their playing careers.

As players only, West, Kareem, LeBron, Shaq, and Mikan would be the clear 'next tier' (if we can label a tier that relatively broad).
I can't see anyone else overly close to them to a degree that I'd place them in the same tier.

Wilt was only five seasons as a Laker (at the END of his career), missing nearly all of one of those to injury.
Davis has only about 5.5 seasons as a Laker, and missed sizable chunks of time in multiple years (and in most of those years he felt a sliver behind LeBron on those same teams). Pau had 6+ seasons as a Laker including his peak. Though he didn't peak as high as Wilt or AD, that extra year perhaps/probably puts him in the same(ish) neighborhood for me.
That would roughly be my 'third tier', along with maybe James Worthy.

I'm lower on some of Mikan's contemporaries (Martin, Mikkelsen, Pollard) than some other posters might be; consequently they'd fall into a broad '4th tier' with names like Byron Scott.

That was sort of off the top of my head; apologies if I forgot someone.

EDIT: Whoops. Forgot about Baylor. He might possibly make my '2nd tier' with West, Kareem, LeBron, Shaq, Mikan........though he feels more like a bridger sort of in between my '2nd and 3rd' tiers.

For me it would have to be Magic and either Wilt or KAJ.

What a great problem to have!

Kinda a little surprised Kareem isn't getting more burn in this discussion. 3 MVPs, 6 20/10 seasons, 10 All-NBA seasons, 5 championships as a key contributor, a couple of All-Time peak years...

rrravenred wrote:Kinda a little surprised Kareem isn't getting more burn in this discussion. 3 MVPs, 6 20/10 seasons, 10 All-NBA seasons, 5 championships as a key contributor, a couple of All-Time peak years...

He doesn't really stack up to the top 3 but definite fourth, ahead of Shaq I think. Baylor is also close, was a real star himself.

migya wrote:

rrravenred wrote:Kinda a little surprised Kareem isn't getting more burn in this discussion. 3 MVPs, 6 20/10 seasons, 10 All-NBA seasons, 5 championships as a key contributor, a couple of All-Time peak years...

He doesn't really stack up to the top 3 but definite fourth, ahead of Shaq I think. Baylor is also close, was a real star himself.

Eh. Think you can reasonably rank him above Kobe and West tbh (depending on your view of the off-court contributions/controversies of both). Don't rate Baylor as near Kareem due to his dodgy efficiency and D.

Magic you can argue pretty convincingly as top Laker, although think it's fair to say he had more roster support in the 80s than Kareem had in the 70s.

Have also always thought that he gets dinged, fairly or unfairly, for a lack of superstar swagger as opposed to a crunchtime hero like West or conscious self-mythologisers like Shaq and Kobe.

rrravenred wrote:

migya wrote:

rrravenred wrote:Kinda a little surprised Kareem isn't getting more burn in this discussion. 3 MVPs, 6 20/10 seasons, 10 All-NBA seasons, 5 championships as a key contributor, a couple of All-Time peak years...

He doesn't really stack up to the top 3 but definite fourth, ahead of Shaq I think. Baylor is also close, was a real star himself.

Eh. Think you can reasonably rank him above Kobe and West tbh (depending on your view of the off-court contributions/controversies of both). Don't rate Baylor as near Kareem due to his dodgy efficiency and D.

Magic you can argue pretty convincingly as top Laker, although think it's fair to say he had more roster support in the 80s than Kareem had in the 70s.

Have also always thought that he gets dinged, fairly or unfairly, for a lack of superstar swagger as opposed to a crunchtime hero like West or conscious self-mythologisers like Shaq and Kobe.

Don't think he had enough star seasons to be rated as high as the other three. He's close and I think above Shaq.

Magic & Kobe are the two pillars of how the Lakers executives and fans define the franchise.

Doctor MJ wrote:Magic & Kobe are the two pillars of how the Lakers executives and fans define the franchise.

These are the two players I think of when I think "Lakers" and it isn't all that close.

Magic/Kobe are the icons, but certainly arguable enough to put either of West/KAJ above them for 'best' Lakers career.

Mikan/Shaq probably next in line, maybe good enough to overcome longevity issues but maybe not (not for me). Too long ago for Mikan to maintain icon status (West/KAJ also having this problem).

Baylor makes an easy top 7 Lakers career. My picks for top two are currently Magic/Kobe, though I should think some more about where I would rank a just Lakers KAJ, maybe it's above them. West I have a step behind the later guards.

Bron would be competitive on a peaks list. Wilt I don't see having much of an argument even for just a top 5 peak, but I suppose a fine 9th option.