RealGM

Which player is the best? How would you rank them?

Lebron
Curry
SGA

Need to see more from SGA for him to move up, certainly the best regular season but I don't think his playoffs were close to the same level as the other two.

Lebron is the better player here i think somewhat clearly

Sga vs curry is close albeit you have to give curry the benefit of the doubt there

2022 Curry strikes me as the odd man out as he's the only one who wasn't an MVP candidate in their regular season, and I don't think he has any significant separation over 2020 LeBron in the postseason. You could argue him over 2025 Shai on the basis of not caring much about the RS because he was certainly better than Shai in the PS, but how would you begin to put him over LeBron? I guess being really high on AD?

Anyway for me it's LeBron > Shai > Curry, though I can see Shai > LeBron > Curry and LeBron > Curry > Shai as reasonable rankings as well.

jalengreen wrote:2022 Curry strikes me as the odd man out as he's the only one who wasn't an MVP candidate in their regular season, and I don't think he has any significant separation over 2020 LeBron in the postseason. You could argue him over 2025 Shai on the basis of not caring much about the RS because he was certainly better than Shai in the PS, but how would you begin to put him over LeBron? I guess being really high on AD?

Anyway for me it's LeBron > Shai > Curry, though I can see Shai > LeBron > Curry and LeBron > Curry > Shai as reasonable rankings as well.

Even in the playoffs i am unconvinced of any big gap between curry and shai

Curry finals was great but his 2nd and 3rd round series were a lower level (and shai was a lot better than he is starting to be given credit for specially past the mostly low leverage memphis series)

falcolombardi wrote:

jalengreen wrote:2022 Curry strikes me as the odd man out as he's the only one who wasn't an MVP candidate in their regular season, and I don't think he has any significant separation over 2020 LeBron in the postseason. You could argue him over 2025 Shai on the basis of not caring much about the RS because he was certainly better than Shai in the PS, but how would you begin to put him over LeBron? I guess being really high on AD?

Anyway for me it's LeBron > Shai > Curry, though I can see Shai > LeBron > Curry and LeBron > Curry > Shai as reasonable rankings as well.

Even in the playoffs i am unconvinced of any big gap between curry and shai

Curry finals was great but his 2nd and 3rd round series were a lower level (and shai was a lot better than he is starting to be given credit for specially past the mostly low leverage memphis series)

Don't think that's an unreasonable position but not sure why you'd then previously say Curry vs Shai is close (and that you'd give Curry the benefit of the doubt)?

jalengreen wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:

jalengreen wrote:2022 Curry strikes me as the odd man out as he's the only one who wasn't an MVP candidate in their regular season, and I don't think he has any significant separation over 2020 LeBron in the postseason. You could argue him over 2025 Shai on the basis of not caring much about the RS because he was certainly better than Shai in the PS, but how would you begin to put him over LeBron? I guess being really high on AD?

Anyway for me it's LeBron > Shai > Curry, though I can see Shai > LeBron > Curry and LeBron > Curry > Shai as reasonable rankings as well.

Even in the playoffs i am unconvinced of any big gap between curry and shai

Curry finals was great but his 2nd and 3rd round series were a lower level (and shai was a lot better than he is starting to be given credit for specially past the mostly low leverage memphis series)

Don't think that's an unreasonable position but not sure why you'd then previously say Curry vs Shai is close (and that you'd give Curry the benefit of the doubt)?

The way i see it curry had a better finals (very relevant) and definetrly a better first round (less relevant) than shai and has a longer proven story as a championship lead piece to use for sample

Although i think shai vs denver was better than curry vs memphis, conveniently the other 2 high leverage series of those runs as their wcf's were 4-1 affairs
(no strong opinion who was better in wcf)

Shai regular season gap is so gigantically absurdly better than the other two that even his abysmal postseason offensive process and court-mapping can’t bring it down

In terms of who I’d rather have

2020 LeBron
2025 Shai
2022 Curry.

I have curry last. His season as. Whole isn’t as good as the other 2. I remember him actually going through a slump mid season, And he’s not as good as a defender

Shai may have had a historic year numbers wise but I wouldn’t take him over a late prime LeBron. .

2020 LeBron
2025 SGA
2022 Curry

EmpireFalls wrote:Shai regular season gap is so gigantically absurdly better than the other two that even his abysmal postseason offensive process and court-mapping can’t bring it down

i dont know which half of your comment i dsagree with more

Shai offensive process was not "abysmal" and lebron and curry regular seasons were not "giantly absurdly worse" either

I always try to lean more heavily towards PS,and I think this tail-end version of prime Lebron is who I bet on more times than not, hence he is the better player.

Before I get into this, I do want to acknowledge that I do think Shai's RS was in another tier from Lebron or Steph. But I think since these were healthy seasons for all of them, I think in terms of championship odds, you can defer to the guy who you think is better/had the better PS. Shai's play is more likely to lead to a #1 seed, but I don't think it is that essential for leading your team to a championship.

I'll go 2020 Lebron because I feel like he was the best defensive player during the playoff runs mentioned by a clear and distinct margin. I think he has a good argument for the best offensive player here, yet even if you gave the slight edge to SGA or Steph, I think Lebron's defense was truly terrific with his help defense and rim protection. I think the Lakers perhaps had lesser defensive personnel overall, and therefore Lebron had to have a bigger impact on that end...and he answered the bell. Furthermore, I do not think Durant and Kawhi had to carry as much of a on-ball playmaking role on their respective teams, while by PlayVal Lebron had an all-time playmaking performance (and many would say this was his peak as a passer/playmaker).

2020 Lebron

28.6pts/75 (rTS% of 8.9%), 15.8 Shots created per 100 possessions, Offensive Load of 54.2

AuPM/G-6
Backpicks BPM-9.37
EPM-6.8
BPM-10.6

2022 Steph
29.1 pts/75 (rTS% of 5.2%), 11.9 shots created per 100 possessions, Offensive Load of 50.4

AUpM/G-4.4
Backpicks BPM-4.7
EPM-6.9
BPM-7.7

2025 Shai
29.7 pts per 75 (rTS% of 0.2%), 11.6 shots created per 100 possession, Offensive Load of 52.8

AuPM/G-4.7
Backpicks BPM-6.5
EPM-4.7
BPM-8.3


And it isn't just this single PS run that gives me confidence in James over the others. Even if you think the sample is too small, we can include 2018.

Lebron (18-20)

Inflation Adjusted Numbers of 30.5pts per 75 (rTS% of 8.3%)

3-year Backpicks BPM-8.8

3-year PS ScoreVal (an estimate of a player’s points per 100 impact from scoring only)-2.3

3-year PS PlayVal-2.5 (Tied for #1 all-time)

3-Year LEBRON-4.76

By just looking at the surrounding years, Lebron still outpaces Shai or Curry as a PS performer in terms of scoring/efficiency combo, and playmaking. And 20 Lebron in particular is more impactful defensively, which might be the one thing these metrics struggle to pick up, if anything.

From the look of the numbers, it looks like Lebron was more impactful. However, as can be with the opponent defense, Lebron played easier defenses than Steph, which is a notable caveat. That is something to keep in mind and curve for depending on your preferences. However, by these same numbers, Lebron was clearly the most impactful defensively, and I think you could argue that overall the Lakers might have played the best offenses out of everyone here and therefore Lebron's defensive edge would always carry over no matter who he is playing. Lebron also had the heaviest offensive load here due to having to create so many more shots for his teammates while potentially dealing with the worst spacing here is also something I considered. Seeing as Lebron from 2009 onward, Lebron has been pretty great against tough defenses when not facing injury (except for Dallas in 2011), I am a bit more confident in Lebron that he would prove resilient against better defenses as this video lays out:

https://youtu.be/wDViQIwOtY8?si=4u2RzUsUEgogQUf4

falcolombardi wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:Shai regular season gap is so gigantically absurdly better than the other two that even his abysmal postseason offensive process and court-mapping can’t bring it down

i dont know which half of your comment i dsagree with more

Shai offensive process was not "abysmal" and lebron and curry regular seasons were not "giantly absurdly worse" either

The biggest gap between any of the 6 seasons (Shai RS/PS, LeBron RS/PS, Curry RS/PS) is Shai’s RS >>> others

Lebron

Shai
Curry

LukaTheGOAT wrote:
Lebron (18-20)

Inflation Adjusted Numbers of 30.5pts per 75 (rTS% of 8.3%)

3-year Backpicks BPM-8.8

3-year PS ScoreVal (an estimate of a player’s points per 100 impact from scoring only)-2.3

3-year PS PlayVal-2.5 (Tied for #1 all-time)

3-Year LEBRON-4.76

By just looking at the surrounding years, Lebron still outpaces Shai or Curry as a PS performer in terms of scoring/efficiency combo, and playmaking. And 20 Lebron in particular is more impactful defensively, which might be the one thing these metrics struggle to pick up, if anything.

Was the other player Nash?

1993Playoffs wrote:In terms of who I’d rather have

2020 LeBron
2025 Shai
2022 Curry.

I have curry last. His season as. Whole isn’t as good as the other 2. I remember him actually going through a slump mid season, And he’s not as good as a defender

Shai may have had a historic year numbers wise but I wouldn’t take him over a late prime LeBron. .

I think this is accurate. Steph's two month shooting slump plus missing a bunch of games should be factored into it and not just good how good he was in two of their playoffs series.

1. 20 Lebron - Top 10 guard defender ever, top 3 playmaker all-time, and elite scorer

2. 25 SGA - Elite guard defense, elite playmaking, and sub-GOAT level scoring

3. 22 Curry - A down season from Curry. A more interesting Convo would be with 21 Curry, imo.