RealGM

I think these guys are all about in the same tier.

SGA
Kobe
D-Wade
KD
Dirk

I don't think Dirk is in this Tier, nor do I think SGA, is in this Tier, yet.

That 2025 Playoff Run, regardless of the outcome left A LOT to be desired. It was closer to a 2001 Allen Iverson-luck playoff run in terms of injuries and quality of competition than a demonstration of on-court dominance.

Shai 2025, assuming he continues at current pace
Durant 2017
Dirk 2006
Wade 2009

Kobe 2008

Wade. Huge Finals carry in a come from behind win:

34.7 PPG
7.8 RPG
3.8 AST
2.7 STL
1.0 BLK

Wade.

27-6-7, +7.7 BPM, +15.2 on/off in the regular season
28-6-6, +9.3 BPM, +22.0 on/off in the playoffs

and that all in sub-optimal conditions offensively for his skillset (Heat were shooting 32% from 3s in the playoffs besides Wade). You can joke about D-Whistle or whatever, but in terms of outcome (title and FMVP) and stats - this is the best one year peak here. I don't think KD as an alpha guy was that good in any year in the playoffs; I don't think Shai was that good in the playoffs as well and PO > RS; Dirk in '11 in the RS wasn't playing on similar usage (23-7-3 in 34 minutes); this is better season than any of Kobe.

Kobe

Gap

Durant

Gap

SGA/ Dirk
Wade - couldn’t win without Shaq and LeBron

LarsV8 wrote:Shai 2025, assuming he continues at current pace
Durant 2017
Dirk 2006
Wade 2009

Kobe 2008

What? We are talking the Kobe 05-06 season, where he averaged 35ppg and took Smush Parker and Kwame Brown to the playoffs

The Master wrote:Wade.

27-6-7, +7.7 BPM, +15.2 on/off in the regular season
28-6-6, +9.3 BPM, +22.0 on/off in the playoffs

and that all in sub-optimal conditions offensively for his skillset (Heat were shooting 32% from 3s in the playoffs besides Wade). You can joke about D-Whistle or whatever, but in terms of outcome (title and FMVP) and stats - this is the best one year peak here. I don't think KD as an alpha guy was that good in any year in the playoffs; I don't think Shai was that good in the playoffs as well and PO > RS; Dirk in '11 in the RS wasn't playing on similar usage (23-7-3 in 34 minutes); this is better season than any of Kobe.

Get real. 09 Kobe anchored the #1 offense in the league (via cleaningtheglass). Was far and away the best player on a 66 win team that grades out as one of the 15 best teams ever by the advanced team metrics. Put together a postseason run that's at least as good as anything from D-Whistle. One of the best postseason runs ever.



Had one of the best Finals in history against one of the best defenses ever. That's better than any Wade season and is the best peak here.

This has to be Kobe in 05-06. He averaged 35/5/5/2. This is also the year he had 27 40 pt games, 10 50 pt games, 2 60+ games and yes the year he scored 81 pts. This was one of the all time greatest seasons a player ever had.

Primedeion wrote:[
Get real. 09 Kobe anchored the #1 offense in the league (via cleaningtheglass). Was far and away the best player on a 66 win team that grades out as one of the 15 best teams ever by the advanced team metrics. Put together a postseason run that's at least as good as anything from D-Whistle. One of the best postseason runs ever.

Had one of the best Finals in history against one of the best defenses ever. That's better than any Wade season and is the best peak here.

Too much of hyperbole. One of the best finals in history? Nope.

First, Kobe vs Wade:

RS: 27-5-5, +5.9 BPM, +11.1 on/off vs 27-6-7, +7.7 BPM, +15.2 on/off
PO: 30-5-6, +9.1 BPM, +12.4 on/off vs 28-6-6, +9.3 BPM, +22.0 on/off

It was a great year for Bryant, that's for sure, but I don't see that many arguments for him here. Wade had both better boxscore production and on/off numbers throughout the full 05/06 season.

Maybe better opponents in the playoffs, but Wade averaged 27-5-6 on 68TS% against 64W Pistons and 35-8-4 on 57.2TS% against 60W Mavs. I can imagine Pistons and Mavs '06 being superior to Nuggets and Magic '09. Also, Shaq didn't have strong playoff performance (18-10 on 57TS% and +1.0 BPM), so it's not like Wade's supporting cast was any spectacular. Played against better defense in the finals? Sure, but Wade had superior finals, so it works both ways.

Maverick41 wrote:This has to be Kobe in 05-06. He averaged 35/5/5/2. This is also the year he had 27 40 pt games, 10 50 pt games, 2 60+ games and yes the year he scored 81 pts. This was one of the all time greatest seasons a player ever had.

Well, the game is not only determined by scoring.

Wade '09 vs Kobe '06:

PPG - RPG - APG - PER - BPM - On/off - TS%
30,2 - 5,0 - 7,5 - 30,4 - 10,6 - 14,2 - 57,4%
35,4 - 5,3 - 4,5 - 28,0 - 7,6 - 12,5 - 55,9%

And this is valid as their team success and environment was quite similar. Kobe scored more points, but he didn't generate 'more' offense (3 APG less) and wasn't more efficient.

Since the question is peak Wade is the runaway answer here. If you want to argue longevity etc then Kobe enters the conversation but that’s not what the OP asked.

LarsV8 wrote:Shai 2025, assuming he continues at current pace
Durant 2017
Dirk 2006
Wade 2009

Kobe 2008

I would say it's:

KD
SGA
Dirk
Wade


Kobe

The Master wrote:Too much of hyperbole. One of the best finals in history? Nope.

Get real. It's easily one of the best Finals in history. The difference is that he did against one of the best defenses in history and Wade was going up against a Mavs team that was barely better than league average.



Uh...Yeah. Easily. 32.4/7.6/5.4/1.5/1.5/30 PER/10 BPM against one of the best defenses in NBA history (-6.5 rel DRTG). Way above average efficiency (111 individual ORTG). Absurdly low turnover rate. Played fantastic defense. Anchored a ridiculous +9 offense. That's at least as good as anything from D-Whistle, and against a vastly superior defense.

It was a great year for Bryant, that's for sure, but I don't see that many arguments for him here.

Please. His postseason run tops anything from Wade:



Better scorer. Way better shooter and floor spacer. Better off-ball. Better portability and scalability. Anchored the #1 offensive in the league. Just clearly and easily the better offensive player. Even his postseason passer rating is comfortably ahead. Insane impact (#2 in minute adjusted RAPM, #2 in postseason EPM) on a vastly superior offense and team. Ceiling raising is vastly more important than floor raising and Wade "carrying" a crappy offense and one of the weakest championship teams ever is absolutely not more impressive than Kobe anchoring a 66 win team with the #1 offense in the league. A team that grades out as one of the best ever by the advanced team metrics.

Maybe better opponents in the playoffs, but Wade averaged 27-5-6 on 68TS% against 64W Pistons and 35-8-4 on 57.2TS% against 60W Mavs.

Kobe did freaking 34-6-6-2 on mind-boggling efficiency (130 ORTG!) in the WCF while chasing around two All-NBA guys, and then had one of the best Finals in history against a 6.5 SRS/60 win team with one of the best defenses ever. Again, that's at least as good as anything from D-Whistle. Get real.

Flash4thewin wrote:Since the question is peak Wade is the runaway answer here. If you want to argue longevity etc then Kobe enters the conversation but that’s not what the OP asked.

Way to overrate the hell out of Wade.

Why is Shai Gilgeous-Alexander so low?

He's peaking the best guard peak since Michael Jordan.

Caneman786 wrote:Why is Shai Gilgeous-Alexander so low?

Last season he had both the highest EPM in the league as well as the highest 1-year RAPM.

There is more to basketball than best regular season impact metrics....i just wish people didnt pick and choose when to use them like that

(Ex jokic, garnett, curry)

In the sense that “best” and “greatest” are conceptually different, my answer is either 2025 SGA or 2006 Wade. Basically, I think 2025 SGA was probably the best player of the bunch. But I think 2006 Wade had a greater year than any of these other guys have had, largely because I think he had the best playoff run.

Looks significant that Kobe did what he did against greater competition and defenses, as was stated above in this thread.

migya wrote:Looks significant that Kobe did what he did against greater competition and defenses, as was stated above in this thread.

I definitely wouldn’t say that 2009 Kobe faced any better defense or greater competition than the 2006 Pistons. I guess the 2009 Magic actually did have a better regular season rDRTG than the 2006 Pistons, but that Pistons team was perhaps the best defensive core in the post-Russell era of the NBA and had one of the top several highest three-year playoff rDRTGs in history.

migya wrote:Looks significant that Kobe did what he did against greater competition and defenses, as was stated above in this thread.

True. The 09 Magic had a defensive rating that was -6.5 points better than league average DRTG. That's one of the twenty best marks in NBA history. The 06 Pistons (-3) aren't even on the same planet. And the 06 Mavs (-1) aren't even in the same universe.