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All rookies, in todays league which duo would you rather build around?

The team with Lebron.

One_and_Done wrote:The team with Lebron.

It seems you answer the same way in every thread like this. Just curious, would you choose Lebron & Anthony Bennett or Lebron & Smush Parker over Magic/Abdul-Jabbar or Duncan/MJ too?

The Explorer wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:The team with Lebron.

It seems you answer the same way in every thread like this. Just curious, would you choose Lebron & Anthony Bennett or Lebron & Smush Parker over Magic/Abdul-Jabbar or Duncan/MJ too?

Obviously not.

In today's NBA late-prime LeBron (which would include 2nd-stint CLE) as a sole centerpiece absolutely clears late-prime Kareem easily when their running mate inevitably retires early (assuming this mirrors real life). Whether this beats the superiority of Magic as a running mate over Bird as well as the marginal longevity advantage is another matter.

Today's game ? Lebron / Bird easily.
And I'm not a Lebron fan at all.

Just out of curiosity.

Who in today's NBA could stop a young/prime Jabbar? Over his first 7 seasons in the league 43 min/g, 30 pts/g, among the league leaders in shooting, 15-16 reb/g, 3-4 bs/g, 4-5 ast/g.

The Explorer wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:The team with Lebron.

It seems you answer the same way in every thread like this. Just curious, would you choose Lebron & Anthony Bennett or Lebron & Smush Parker over Magic/Abdul-Jabbar or Duncan/MJ too?

Smush Parker was in Kobe Bryant’s supporting cast, so that might actually be a tough question for One_and_Done!

As a LeBron doubter, who took mj/duncan in the other thread and believe that to be a clear choice, this is LeBron/bird. Bird in this era is a goat candidate and the ball movement with those two would be unimaginable. No slight to the other option but being today's nba makes it clear.

kcktiny wrote:Just out of curiosity.

Who in today's NBA could stop a young/prime Jabbar? Over his first 7 seasons in the league 43 min/g, 30 pts/g, among the league leaders in shooting, 15-16 reb/g, 3-4 bs/g, 4-5 ast/g.

Not sure how this is relevant. Who in todays NBA can stop Jokic, or SGA?...No one. So then why are we looking for someone to "stop" KAJ (and presumably not finding anyone) as a way to say he would be better than anyone in today's league and therefor the clear pick here.

Who in todays NBA can stop a peak Lebron? Who can stop a peak Magic etc...? Doesn't matter... that's now how NBA basketball works.

RCM88x wrote:

kcktiny wrote:Just out of curiosity.

Who in today's NBA could stop a young/prime Jabbar? Over his first 7 seasons in the league 43 min/g, 30 pts/g, among the league leaders in shooting, 15-16 reb/g, 3-4 bs/g, 4-5 ast/g.

Not sure how this is relevant. Who in todays NBA can stop Jokic, or SGA?...No one. So then why are we looking for someone to "stop" KAJ (and presumably not finding anyone) as a way to say he would be better than anyone in today's league and therefor the clear pick here.

Who in todays NBA can stop a peak Lebron? Who can stop a peak Magic etc...? Doesn't matter... that's now how NBA basketball works.

Its just that KAJ put up those stats playing 10 games vs Thurmond and 10 games vs Wilt. 1/4 of the season. What did he do vs the others? What would he do against today's kids who although are much better latterly are much softer in the core/legs and lack the size/girth to play post defense on the level that KAJ faced historically?

Not sure how this is relevant. Who in todays NBA can stop Jokic

It's amazing how Jokic keeps popping up in threads that have nothing to do with Jokic.

But since you decided to throw Jokic into this non-Jokic conversation.

Alcindor/Jabbar his first 7 years in the league averaged 43 min/g and 78-79 games/season, averaged playing 3333 minutes/season.

Jokic his 7 seasons of most minutes played averaged 77 games/82game season but just 2661 minutes per season and only 34 min/g.

Jabbar played 20% more minutes per season his first 7 years in the league than did Jokic in his seasons of most minutes played.

Forgetting the fact that Jabbar is arguably one of the greatest defensive Cs in league history, who in their right mind would rather have a prime Jokic playing 2661 minutes/season than a prime Jabbar playing 3333 minutes/season. You perhaps?

Who can stop Jokic? Clearly Jokic himself. By sitting on the bench watching the great Cs play 20% more minutes in a season.

And as a rookie, Jabbar played 82 games and 3534 minutes, 43 min/g. Jokic as a rookie played 80 games but only 1733 minutes, just 22 min/g.

So then why are we looking for someone to "stop" KAJ

Oh I don't know. Maybe because this is a thread of who would be best in today's NBA Magic/Kareem or Bird/Lebron?

And today you do not have dominant defensive Cs in the league like the league had in the early to mid 70s playing tons of minutes like Jabbar did, or Chamberlain, or Thurmond, or Cowens.

that's now how NBA basketball works

Tell you what - why don't you tell us how basketball works.

Its just that KAJ put up those stats playing 10 games vs Thurmond and 10 games vs Wilt.

Correct - and with Wilt playing 43 min/g and Nate 40 min/g.

Not to mention playing against the likes of Dave Cowens, Elmore Smith, Willis Reed, Bob Lanier, Walt Bellamy, and a few others.

The duo that could space the floor better, so obviously not Magic/Kareem.

kcktiny wrote:

Not sure how this is relevant. Who in todays NBA can stop Jokic

It's amazing how Jokic keeps popping up in threads that have nothing to do with Jokic.

But since you decided to throw Jokic into this non-Jokic conversation.

Alcindor/Jabbar his first 7 years in the league averaged 43 min/g and 78-79 games/season, averaged playing 3333 minutes/season.

Jokic his 7 seasons of most minutes played averaged 77 games/82game season but just 2661 minutes per season and only 34 min/g.

Jabbar played 20% more minutes per season his first 7 years in the league than did Jokic in his seasons of most minutes played.

Forgetting the fact that Jabbar is arguably one of the greatest defensive Cs in league history, who in their right mind would rather have a prime Jokic playing 2661 minutes/season than a prime Jabbar playing 3333 minutes/season. You perhaps?

Who can stop Jokic? Clearly Jokic himself. By sitting on the bench watching the great Cs play 20% more minutes in a season.

And as a rookie, Jabbar played 82 games and 3534 minutes, 43 min/g. Jokic as a rookie played 80 games but only 1733 minutes, just 22 min/g.

So then why are we looking for someone to "stop" KAJ

Oh I don't know. Maybe because this is a thread of who would be best in today's NBA Magic/Kareem or Bird/Lebron?

And today you do not have dominant defensive Cs in the league like the league had in the early to mid 70s playing tons of minutes like Jabbar did, or Chamberlain, or Thurmond, or Cowens.

that's now how NBA basketball works

Tell you what - why don't you tell us how basketball works.

Its just that KAJ put up those stats playing 10 games vs Thurmond and 10 games vs Wilt.

Correct - and with Wilt playing 43 min/g and Nate 40 min/g.

Not to mention playing against the likes of Dave Cowens, Elmore Smith, Willis Reed, Bob Lanier, Walt Bellamy, and a few others.

Not sure what comparing minutes played between two players 50 years apart does us but thanks for that.

NBA basketball isn't a series on 1 on 1s, which you are implying it is by looking for someone to "stop" KAJ. Maybe it was in the 1960s, or for a time in the 1990s, but we've evolved past that.

Although my first instinct was that LeBron/Bird was more suited to today's game (although as One and Done is fond of saying, Bird hasn't proven he can shoot more than 3 3pa/game since he never did it, but I believe he, like the other greats with great outside shots, would easily adjust).

However, Kareem hit that skyhook consistently from the high post as he aged, not just the low post. If he develops that shot earlier (like Bird develops his 3 earlier), it still provides spacing and lanes to the basket and finding a true athletic and fluid 7 footer is as difficult today as it ever was so he's as much a unicorn as he was in his day. The question is whether Magic would be effective in today's league where he could be hunted more effectively on defense. He also never shot significantly more than 3 3's a game and until his last 3 years, never more than 1 so he didn't come into the league with that skillset though today he almost certainly would.

Not sure what comparing minutes played between two players 50 years apart does us but thanks for that.

Jabbar's first 7 seasons in the league (1969-70 to 1975-76) he played 43 min/g, 45 min/g in the playoffs. Jokic's last 7 seasons (2018-19 to 2024-25) he played just 34 min/g, 38 min/g in the playoffs.

The fact that teams tend to play their best players the most minutes possible to win as many games as possible a foreign concept to you?

Who would you rather have - a prime Jabbar playing 43 min/g for you or a prime Jokic playing 34 min/g? Easy choice for me.

NBA basketball isn't a series on 1 on 1s

Watch a lot of NBA basketball do you? Even today zone is not used that much, I've read at most on 5%-7% of team possessions on average. That means the rest of the time teams are playing primarily man-to-man. Or do you disagree with that?

which you are implying it is by looking for someone to "stop" KAJ

Correct. Good catch on your part.

Maybe it was in the 1960s, or for a time in the 1990s, but we've evolved past that.

We've? Care to explain this?

Care to explain how "we've" evolved past that? Just what exactly are you trying to imply here?

Kareem makes me pause but I’d go LeBron and Bird

It’s hard to pass up any team with LeBron on it.

If every team is building offenses around stretching the defense and creating open corner 3s or driving lanes then its most likely every team is building a defense to counter. I would be more inclined to go the other way and take the inside out approach. That allows me to be the unicorn and forces others to completely change their style. It also allows me to bring in better players who compliment my style since there will be less demand for the type of players I require. The defensive advantages are also underrated here.

Furthermore, I can't see Lebron coexisting with Bird. Its not possible for the "King" to be 2nd fiddle. If you take them be ready to trade one or both soon. Magic is such a leader that you have more flexibility in who you build around.

Warspite wrote:If every team is building offenses around stretching the defense and creating open corner 3s or driving lanes then its most likely every team is building a defense to counter. I would be more inclined to go the other way and take the inside out approach. That allows me to be the unicorn and forces others to completely change their style. It also allows me to bring in better players who compliment my style since there will be less demand for the type of players I require. The defensive advantages are also underrated here.

Furthermore, I can't see Lebron coexisting with Bird. Its not possible for the "King" to be 2nd fiddle. If you take them be ready to trade one or both soon. Magic is such a leader that you have more flexibility in who you build around.

Good thing he wouldn't be 2nd fiddle?

I think a few people didn't read the OP. All are rookies... This being young and not old Kareem makes a ton of difference. For me personally, I think prime Kareem is better than the other 3 players but this is definitely very close either way.