RealGM

It's probably going to be a future project, but I've tweaked my 3 and 5 year peaks of the top 40 or so players and the results are below.

Player	3 Years
Michael Jordan	89-91
Lebron James	12-14
Shaquille O'Neal	00-02
Nikola Jokic	23-25
Bill Russell	62-64
Hakeem Olajuwon	93-95
Steph Curry	15-17
Tim Duncan	01-03
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar	72-74
David Robinson	94-96
Kevin Garnett	02-04
Giannis Antetokounmpo	20-22
Wilt Chamberlain	66-68
Larry Bird	85-87
Magic Johnson	86-88
Jerry West	64-66
Kevin Durant	16-18
Kobe Bryant	06-08
Oscar Robertson	63-65
Steve Nash	05-07
James Harden	18-20
Dwyane Wade	09-11
Kawhi Leonard	15-17
Dirk Nowitzki	09-11
Julius Erving	75-77
Chris Paul	13-15
Karl Malone	92-94
Joel Embiid	21-23
Charles Barkley	89-91
Walt Frazier	71-73
Patrick Ewing	89-91
Jimmy Butler	21-23
Moses Malone	81-83
Anthony Davis	18-20
Scottie Pippen	94-96
Rick Barry	74-76
Bob Pettit	59-61
Jayson Tatum	22-24
Luka Doncic	22-24
Elgin Baylor	61-63
Kevin McHale	85-87
John Stockton	88-90
John Havlicek	70-72
Jason Kidd	02-04
Artis Gilmore	72-74
Reggie Miller	93-95
Paul Pierce	08-10

Tiers

All-Time: MJ through Russell
MVP: Hakeem through Kawhi
Weak MVP: Dirk through Barry
All NBA: Pettit through Pierce

Player	5 Years
Michael Jordan	88-92
Lebron James	09-13
Bill Russell	61-65
Nikola Jokic	21-25
Shaquille O'Neal	99-03
Steph Curry	15-19
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar	73-77
Tim Duncan	01-05
Hakeem Olajuwon	91-95
David Robinson	92-96
Kevin Garnett	02-06
Larry Bird	83-87
Wilt Chamberlain	64-68
Jerry West	65-69
Giannis Antetokounmpo	19-23
Magic Johnson	86-90
Oscar Robertson	63-67
Kobe Bryant	06-10
Steve Nash	05-09
Dirk Nowitzki	07-11
Kevin Durant	14-18
James Harden	16-20
Julius Erving	73-77
Karl Malone	91-95
Kawhi Leonard	15-19
Chris Paul	11-15
Charles Barkley	89-93
Walt Frazier	70-74
Dwyane Wade	09-13
Joel Embiid	19-23
Patrick Ewing	89-93
Anthony Davis	16-20
Moses Malone	81-85
Scottie Pippen	93-97
Jimmy Butler	19-23
Rick Barry	72-76
Bob Pettit	58-62
Luka Doncic	21-25
Jayson Tatum	21-25
John Stockton	88-92
Elgin Baylor	60-64
Kevin McHale	84-88
Paul Pierce	05-09
John Havlicek	70-74
Artis Gilmore	72-76
Jason Kidd	02-06
Reggie Miller	91-95

Tiers

All-Time: MJ through Jokic
MVP: Shaq through Oscar
Weak-MVP: Kobe through Barry
All NBA: Pettit through Miller

Obviously a down year or injury really hurts a player in the 5 year ranks. Notable instances are D Rob '92 injury, Jerry West '67 ps injury, KD's '15 injury, Kawhi's '18 injury. Others are affected by an injury shifting the years of their 5 year peaks, like D Wade.

What's the argument for Curry over Kareem?

TheGOATRises007 wrote:What's the argument for Curry over Kareem?

Kareem peaks in ‘77. Years around it weren’t as great. If you pick best 3 non concurrent years, Kareem is ahead. But it’s not. It’s 3 consecutive seasons.

Would have Havlicek over Doncic.

Both players were high scorers with multiple all-NBA team selections. But Havlicek was NBA all-defensive team each season (your 5 year range), arguably the best defensive SF in the year range you specified, whereas Doncic has been a poor defender pretty much his entire career (even with his very good defensive rebounding).

You also have all-offense no-defense Jokic and all-defense little-offense Russell above great two-way Cs like Hakeem, DRob, Jabbar, Wilt. What's the reasoning?

kcktiny wrote:Would have Havlicek over Doncic.

Both players were high scorers with multiple all-NBA team selections. But Havlicek was NBA all-defensive team each season (your 5 year range), arguably the best defensive SF in the year range you specified, whereas Doncic has been a poor defender pretty much his entire career (even with his very good defensive rebounding).

You also have all-offense no-defense Jokic and all-defense little-offense Russell above great two-way Cs like Hakeem, DRob, Jabbar, Wilt. What's the reasoning?

Each season is judged on its own. The best 3 year stretch is evaluated based off averages (similarly for 5 year stretch). Hakeem '93, Kareem '77 are individual seasons either at or above peak Jokic. Jokic's 3 consecutive seasons though were elite.

Hondo v Luka was pretty close. Both peak at a first team all NBA level for multiple seasons, without crossing into that weak MVP territory.

Jokic's 3 consecutive seasons though were elite.

You have ten Cs - Russell, Jabbar, Olajuwon, DRob, Chamberlain, Embiid, Ewing, Malone, Gilmore, An.Davis (PF/C) - listed below Jokic.

Name just one that Jokic was better than defensively.

kcktiny wrote:You also have all-offense no-defense Jokic and all-defense little-offense Russell above great two-way Cs like Hakeem, DRob, Jabbar, Wilt. What's the reasoning?

kcktiny wrote:

Jokic's 3 consecutive seasons though were elite.

You have ten Cs - Russell, Jabbar, Olajuwon, DRob, Chamberlain, Embiid, Ewing, Malone, Gilmore, An.Davis (PF/C) - listed below Jokic.

Name just one that Jokic was better than defensively.

This seems somewhat peculiar is a challenge, somewhat of a non sequitur.

An answer of "none" would in and of itself do nothing to challenge the posters reasoning as I imagine you are attempting to do.

If, say, Jokic is (arbitrarily) a +16 player via +16 O and 0 D (or indeed +17 and -1) and Jabbar is +15 via a +9 and +6 or whatever ... Jokic's value remains greater.

It doesn't matter whether one agrees with the assessments for the particular players. That's a different argument (one where we're explicitly drilling into specific players' net value). Being "two-way" is typically good because it gives you two areas to accumulate a big impact. But if it turns out you can reliably do it on one end I'm not sure why the how would matter. If there's a need for a meta argument then always good to clarify things. But I'm not sure silo-ing things off here particularly helps.

Fwiw, and of course this doesn't really matter but in terms of ease of reading an odd choice to list "An. Davis" (to distinguish from ... Baron? Walter? though fwiw not Antonio, I suppose) but simply "Malone" in a list of all time great big men in which you've included a player you acknowledge as primarily a PF and Karl Malone is part of your source list. I would think Moses (or "M.") would be more helpful in providing greater clarity in such lists.

Pretty large gap between Jokic and Magic. Is it because of Jokic’s scoring?

This seems somewhat peculiar is a challenge, somewhat of a non sequitur.

What kind of inane response is this? Do you even know what "non sequitur" means? "an inference that does NOT follow from the premise"

Was or was not this player ranking posted to elicit discussion? If not then what's the point?

No methodology is mentioned. Is one not allowed to ask about the methodology and then question it?

An answer of "none" would in and of itself do nothing to challenge the posters reasoning

How do you even know what the poster's reasoning is? Why do you feel the need to speak for the poster? Why have you arbitrarily decided you have the right to speak for the poster? Are you some official RealGM spokesperson or something?

The poster posted:

Jokic's 3 consecutive seasons though were elite.

What does "elite" mean? Do you know? I sure don't. Elite on offense? On defense? Offensive rebounding? Defensive rebounding?

The poster listed Jokic 2nd among Cs on both listings. I simply asked the poster to name even one of the Cs listed that he thought Jokic was a better defender than. Is this not permissible?

Why has this twisted you in a knot? If you have a problem with that, then stay out of the discussion. If not, then add something of substance to the conversation.

And just what exactly is this?:

If, say, Jokic is (arbitrarily) a +16 player via +16 O and 0 D (or indeed +17 and -1) and Jabbar is +15 via a +9 and +6 or whatever ... Jokic's value remains greater.

How has this gibberish in any way helped to further this discussion?

It doesn't matter whether one agrees with the assessments for the particular players.

Who are you to decide this?

Why do you feel the post was made if not to spur discussion/debate on the players? The poster even listed different tiers for the players.

Who are you to say we are not allowed to debate or question these?

Being "two-way" is typically good because it gives you two areas to accumulate a big impact. But if it turns out you can reliably do it on one end I'm not sure why the how would matter.

What are you even saying here? Do you even know? This is a listing of NBA players. How about discussing this listing?

If there's a need for a meta argument then always good to clarify things. But I'm not sure silo-ing things off here particularly helps.

Silo-ing? Dude what are you even talking about?

How about discussing/debating the actual players in the listings?

Fwiw, and of course this doesn't really matter but in terms of ease of reading an odd choice to list "An. Davis" (to distinguish from ... Baron? Walter? though fwiw not Antonio, I suppose) but simply "Malone" in a list of all time great big men in which you've included a player you acknowledge as primarily a PF and Karl Malone is part of your source list. I would think Moses (or "M.") would be more helpful in providing greater clarity in such lists.

Dude are you completely clueless? I listed specifically Cs, and the only C mentioned in the above listing named Malone is Moses Malone. Do you see a Baron, or a Walter, or an Antonio anywhere in the above listings?

Are you off your meds or something?