Ben Wallace - HOF?

Prop · Post #1 » by **Prop** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:33 pm

4X DPOY, 4X all-star, 5 all nba teams, 5 all-D teams, 1 championship ring.

Yay or nay?

I'd personally say yay. i also think rodman (who's probably the best comparison to ben) should definitely get in as well...

Post #2 » by **CBS7** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:41 pm

Yes, but I'm not sure if he deserves it.

4x DPOY, 4x Allstar, 6x All-Defense, 5x All-NBA, and a ring should get him in there.

Post #3 » by **Cowology** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 12:59 am

Ben was overrated for quite a few years and won at least 2 of his DPOY undeservedly.

Rodman >>> Ben

Post #4 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 1:01 am

Rodman and Mutumbo should go first, then we can talk about Ben.

NetsForce · Post #5 » by **NetsForce** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 1:06 am

The Hall of Fame is a joke anyway =\

Pats19andO · Post #6 » by **Pats19andO** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 2:02 am

Hall of fame of bigs who get overpaid by 10 million at age 33, yes

bstein14 · Post #7 » by **bstein14** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 2:10 am

One things for sure... his jersey won't be hanging in Detroit.

Post #8 » by **Doctor MJ** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:05 am

No. He was borderline when he was in Detroit, and I said that when he went to Chicago his performance there would determine his candidacy. If Detroit had fallen apart and Chicago had proved with him being the star of their defense, Ben gets in the Hall. Instead Detroit did fine and Ben disappeared.

UDRIH14 · Post #9 » by **UDRIH14** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:29 am

i still question his 03/04 DPOY

him and artest were out for at least 10 games right?

well if you missed 10 games you are out of the running for MVP easy, yet this doesnt apply to DPOY award....looks like they are only interested in numbers

NCHeels2008 · Post #10 » by **NCHeels2008** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:46 am

he deserves some credit for 02 where him and JERRY FREAKIN STACKHOUSE led a 50 win team

Post #11 » by **Cowology** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:50 am

NCHeels2008 wrote:he deserves some credit for 02 where him and JERRY FREAKIN STACKHOUSE led a 50 win team

I think his 2 best seasons came in '02 & '03. He was still very good in '04, but the hype machine got outa hand quickly. He went from being underrated to overrated in the blink of an eye.

Liqourish · Post #12 » by **Liqourish** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 1:46 pm

I believe that if Ben Wallace had stayed in Detroit, the team would have continued to cover his faults and he would have continued to win award and All-Star appearances. Add that to the continuing success of the Pistons and he would have made in into the HoF. But he left Detroit for the money and Chicago wasn't a good enugh team to carry Ben. Now he's declining rapidly. I think it's questionable at this point. If you looks at just the credits to hs name, I think he might get voted in.

DPOY x4,
Led the league in rebounding back to back years,
All-NBA defensive 1st team x4,
All-NBA defensive 2nd team x1,
All NBA 3rd team x2,
All NBA 2nd team x3,
All-Star x4,
First undrafted player to start the All -Star game
Won a ring with the 2004 Detroit Pistons

He also, while with Detroit, had four consecutive season where he obtained over 1,000 rebounds, 100 assists, 150 blocks and 100 steals... one of only a handful of players to ever do that. He also got close to doing that his last two years in Detrot, but just fell short.

Obviously, taking the contract from Chicago has really biten him in the ass. :rofl:

hermes · Post #13 » by **hermes** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 4:51 pm

Cowology wrote:Ben was overrated for quite a few years and won at least 2 of his DPOY undeservedly.

Rodman >>> Ben

Dieselbound&Down · Post #14 » by **Dieselbound&Down** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:18 pm

His career achievements are great but I see a HOF as a player who transcends teams. Wallace has always been fairly limited in who you could put around him. He has built a mystique though which, like it or not, counts as he is a memorable presence. I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed either way.

Joseph17 · Post #15 » by **Joseph17** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 12:03 am

He definitely doesn't deserve to be in the HOF. He was very overrated.

WadeKnicks2010 · Post #16 » by **WadeKnicks2010** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:07 am

I almost laughed when I saw this thread. C'mon, you can't be THAT bad at offense and enter the HOF. He also is overrated on defense.. He gambles on those blocks and leaves the basket wide open sometimes to perhaps add another block to his box score by going out to the perimeter. He's just not that staple inside guy you would expect a true defensive minded center to be.

Post #17 » by **tsherkin** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:17 am

Cowology wrote:Ben was overrated for quite a few years and won at least 2 of his DPOY undeservedly.

Rodman >>> Ben

Agreed...

But whether he deserves all 4 or not, he has them, and that had BETTER get him into the HoF, if there's any justice. Same deal with Mutombo and likewise Rodman (though the Worm had "only" 2 DPOYs).

I think that his impact as a defender and rebounder has been sufficient, especially since he won a ring, that he should get there. No matter what you have to say about him, he WAS a pretty legitimate force on that end of the floor.

Post #18 » by **Doctor MJ** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:39 am

tsherkin wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Agreed...

But whether he deserves all 4 or not, he has them, and that had BETTER get him into the HoF, if there's any justice. Same deal with Mutombo and likewise Rodman (though the Worm had "only" 2 DPOYs).

I think that his impact as a defender and rebounder has been sufficient, especially since he won a ring, that he should get there. No matter what you have to say about him, he WAS a pretty legitimate force on that end of the floor.

Hmm. I don't think defensive accolades should ever be used alone to evaluate a player. All-around awards factor in defense already. You can argue defensive players are underrated by them, but even then you should just adjust fro that underrating when evaluate them.

Ben Wallace was never a Top 5 MVP candidate, and he only broke Top 10 3 times. Worse than that, he got those Top 10 appearences because his team was good enough to get its star MVP candidacy, and it swapped Billups in for Wallace's place in a flash. Now I'm not going to say that you can't think that's good enough for the Hall, but there are certainly other people with comparable accolades who aren't in the Hall.

Post #19 » by **tsherkin** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:53 am

Doctor MJ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Hmm. I don't think defensive accolades should ever be used alone to evaluate a player. All-around awards factor in defense already. You can argue defensive players are underrated by them, but even then you should just adjust fro that underrating when evaluate them.

Eh... all around awards such as what? You're pretty much limited to the DPOY and the All-Defensive Teams.

Ben Wallace was never a Top 5 MVP candidate, and he only broke Top 10 3 times. Worse than that, he got those Top 10 appearences because his team was good enough to get its star MVP candidacy, and it swapped Billups in for Wallace's place in a flash. Now I'm not going to say that you can't think that's good enough for the Hall, but there are certainly other people with comparable accolades who aren't in the Hall.

I don't think MVP contention should be a requisite for the Hall, really. The HoF is broken and stupid and useless but if a guy who was among the league's most dominant defenders (and recognized as such, repeatedly) for a half decade or so and was known for that throughout his entire career, I think it's a fair deal to send him there. This is a guy who was the defensive anchor for some of the best defensive squads the league has seen, who was a key piece on a title team.

As far as those who aren't in the Hall, I return to the notion that the Hall is run by idiots and leave it at that. The NBA should have its own Hall that is run by someone with more brainpower than a drunk capybara, but I still think that Wallace deserves it given some of the others who are in.

If KC Jones is in as a player, Wallace definitely deserves it.

David Thompson might have deserved it if he'd played a career instead of 6 seasons of more than 39 games... Let's just say I take a dim view of the consideration the Hall gives.

Ben Wallace has been until recently one of the best help defenders in the last 20 years and only Dikembe Mutombo has been recognized for his defense as often with the DPOY.

Defensive prowess is a skill, no different from scoring; not as gaudy but still critical.

Village Idiot · Post #20 » by **Village Idiot** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:49 am

If Artis Gilmore can't get into the HOF then there's no way in hell Ben Wallace should be there.

This from Wikipedia

"Despite an ABA career in which he averaged 22.3 points and 17.1 rebounds per game, NBA career averages of 17.1 points and 10.1 rebounds per game, Gilmore has yet to be elected to the Hall of Fame; he is one of several former ABA MVPs who have not received the honor. In addition to being pro basketball's all-time most successful field goal percentage shooter, Gilmore ranks among the top 25 all-time point scorers, as well as in the top ten in rebounds, blocked shots, games and minutes played. No other players with comparable statistical accomplishments have been omitted from the Hall of Fame. Gilmore remains ineligible for consideration of Hall of Fame enshrinement until 2012. For the past three years he failed to receive a single vote of support from a panel of nine basketball experts serving on the North American screening committee. This committee is anonymous."