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Pre Laker Kobe led team vs BLAZERS Drexler led team, whose the better player...


I dunno why most of you guys are comparing kobe to jordan, when pre laker kobe team is no different to a drexler blazers team, but drexler did led his team to the finals to lose againt the bulls, and he did had a steller career which alot of ppl have forgotten...dude isnt even on top20 player list....

Kobe, by a LOT.

pre laker kobe team? your words confuse me....

I think the answer to question is Kobe...but I'm not sure I know what the question is...so I could be wrong lol

Cowology wrote:pre laker kobe team? your words confuse me....

I think the answer to question is Kobe...but I'm not sure I know what the question is...so I could be wrong lol

^I second that. I have no idea what you are specifically trying to ask???
Are you trying to say Kobe during 96-04 (with Shaq) or after... or what?


Anyways, I feel Kobe has surpassed Drexler in both career and peak play already. Kobe has about twice as many All league selections, and also has at least 5 All defense selections over Drexler (if you are not counting Kobe's dubious defense selections, --ie the past two years). Also there is a pretty clear statistical advantage Kobe has over Drexler.


CLYDE DREXLER - PACE ADJUSTED -PER40 (1986-1994)
20.3ppg, 5.9rpg, 6.4apg, 2.3spg, 0.8bpg, 2.8to, 55.2%TS
25.3ppg, 6.2rpg, 5.4apg, 2.4spg, 0.6bpg, 2.7to, 56.4%TS
24.6ppg, 7.1rpg, 5.2apg, 2.5spg, 0.6bpg, 2.9to. 55.5%TS
22.9ppg, 6.8rpg, 5.8apg, 2.0spg, 0.7bpg, 2.5to, 55.1%TS
22.4ppg, 6.9rpg, 6.2apg, 1.8spg, 0.7bpg, 3.0to, 56.3%TS
25.4ppg, 6.7rpg, 6.8apg, 1.8spg, 0.8bpg, 3.2to, 56.0%TS
21.4ppg, 6.8rpg, 6.1apg, 2.1spg, 0.7bpg, 2.6to, 51.7%TS
21.1ppg, 7.2rpg, 5.4apg, 1.6spg, 0.5bpg, 2.8to, 51.4%TS


KOBE BRYANT - PACE ADJUSTED -PER40 (1999-2007)
23.5 ppg, 6.6rpg, 5.1apg, 1.7spg, 1bpg, 2.9to, 54.6%TS
27.9ppg, 5.7rpg, 4.9apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg, 3.2to, 55.2%TS
26.4ppg, 5.8rpg, 5.7apg, 1.5spg, 0.5bpg, 2.9to, 54.4%TS
28.9ppg, 5.8rpg, 5.7apg, 2.1spg, 0.8bpg, 3.4to, 55.0%TS
25.5ppg, 5.9rpg, 5.4apg, 1.8spg, 0.5bpg, 2.8to 55.1%TS
27.1ppg, 5.8rpg, 5.9apg, 1.3spg, 0.8bpg, 4.0to, 56.3%TS
34.6ppg, 5.2rpg, 4.4apg, 1.8spg, 0.4bpg, 3.1to, 55.9%TS
31.0ppg, 5.6,rpg, 5.3apg, 1.4spg, 0.5bpg, 3.2to, 58.0%TS


Basically, after pace adjusted, and minute adjusted (watered-down PER)
you got:

(8years career+prime/pace adjusted per40)
Kobe: 28points, 6rebounds, 5assists, 1.6steals, 0.6blocks, - 55-56%TS (3.2to)
Clyde: 23points, 7rebounds, 6assists, 2steals, 0.6blocks, 54-55%TS (2.8to)

Drexler has slightly better rebound and assist numbers, but Kobe clearly is the better scorer. Drexler also turns the ball over less, and steals the ball more; however, is slightly less efficient overall in shooting %'s. Then you add to the equation that for at least 5 of those years Kobe is playing clearly better overall defense (if you discount his last two dubious selections) -- and you get your answer: Kobe.

Add on to Tesla's post:

Kobe Bryant
All NBA 1st Team: 5
All NBA 2nd Team: 2
All NBA 3rd Team: 2
Total: 9

All D 1st: 5
All D 2nd: 2
Total: 7

Top 5 MVP voting: 5
Top 10 MVP voting: 6

Clyde Drexler
All NBA 1st Team: 1
All NBA 2nd Team: 2
All NBA 3rd Team: 2
Total: 5

All D 1st: 0
All D 2nd: 0
Total: 0

Top 5 MVP voting: 2
Top 10 MVP voting: 4

It's clearly Kobe.

Stats are misleading. Kobe is on a totally different level.

Looking back 20 years from now, some people might think Amare was the better player this year because he's shooting 58%, scoring 22 and grabbing 9 rebs in only 30 mins which leads to an amazing PER.

But we all know that Amare clearly isn't nearly the player Kobe is.

Don't rely on stats.

Patterns wrote:Stats are misleading. Kobe is on a totally different level.

Looking back 20 years from now, some people might think Amare was the better player this year because he's shooting 58%, scoring 22 and grabbing 9 rebs in only 30 mins which leads to an amazing PER.

But we all know that Amare clearly isn't nearly the player Kobe is.

Don't rely on stats.

and what do you suggest to the people that haven't seen Clyde play and simply don't have the time or money to purchase and watch old tapes?

tkb wrote:Add on to Tesla's post:

Kobe Bryant
All NBA 1st Team: 5
All NBA 2nd Team: 2
All NBA 3rd Team: 2
Total: 9

All D 1st: 5
All D 2nd: 2
Total: 7

Top 5 MVP voting: 5
Top 10 MVP voting: 6

Clyde Drexler
All NBA 1st Team: 1
All NBA 2nd Team: 2
All NBA 3rd Team: 2
Total: 5

All D 1st: 0
All D 2nd: 0
Total: 0

Top 5 MVP voting: 2
Top 10 MVP voting: 4

It's clearly Kobe.

This has no relevance since these players didnt play at the same time. Its like comparing Euro league or WNBA all 1st teams vs NBA. Lisa Leslie might have more 1st teams than Eddy Curry but who is the better player?

To suggest Kobe would have more 1st teams than Drexler if he played in a league with MJ, Magic, Stockton, KJ, Price, Isiah and GP is absurd.

Is Kobe a better defender than Dumars, MJ, Moncrief, GP and Stockton? Would he have beaten those guys out for awards as well?

Would Kobe finish higher in MVP voteing if he played in a NBA against Magic, Bird, MJ, Charles, K Malone, Hakeem, Shaq, DRob and 2nd tier players like Mosses, DrJ, Kareem and Nique?

There are legit arguments for Kobe but the ones cited by tkb are not.

I didn't argue them, I posted them as a follow up to Tesla's post to show what each of them have accomplished.

We're using Mark Price as an excuse for why Drexler at least don't have a lot of 3rd team selections now?

Where did I suggest Kobe would have more 1st teams than Drexler in the same era? I would hope you can show me a quote on that since you accuse me of posting that.

tkb wrote:I didn't argue them, I posted them as a follow up to Tesla's post to show what each of them have accomplished.

We're using Mark Price as an excuse for why Drexler at least don't have a lot of 3rd team selections now?

Where did I suggest Kobe would have more 1st teams than Drexler in the same era? I would hope you can show me a quote on that since you accuse me of posting that.

To Drexler's defense on the All-NBA Teams, the Third team did not start until after about halfway through Drexler's career.

Clyde..Kobe may have overall more talent, but Drex gives you no headaches and makes his teammates better. When kobe won the rings, he had the diesal with him.too many what ifs to go through..but I say Clyde.

Kobe Bryant because he lead his team to 3 championships. Drexler lost in the finals to someone who's not as good as Kobe Bryant.

DmoneyH3 wrote:Clyde..Kobe may have overall more talent, but Drex gives you no headaches and makes his teammates better. When kobe won the rings, he had the diesal with him.too many what ifs to go through..but I say Clyde.

and when Clyde won, he had Hakeem, what's your point?

Warspite wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




This has no relevance since these players didnt play at the same time. Its like comparing Euro league or WNBA all 1st teams vs NBA. Lisa Leslie might have more 1st teams than Eddy Curry but who is the better player?

To suggest Kobe would have more 1st teams than Drexler if he played in a league with MJ, Magic, Stockton, KJ, Price, Isiah and GP is absurd.

Magic was out of the league by 91, so Bryant would have had at the very least two All NBA First Team selections (in 92 and 93). Besides, why no mention of the 2nd and 3rd team selections which Bryant would have racked up with ease, while Drexler didn't? Worse season of Bryant's career was an All NBA 3rd team selection playing injured all season and missing a month of action.

Is Kobe a better defender than Dumars, MJ, Moncrief, GP and Stockton? Would he have beaten those guys out for awards as well?

Bryant without question beats out Stockton defensively, and GP didn't start really playing elite D until about 94 (which is when he made his first All D team). That leaves MJ, Dumars and Moncrief, which still means Bryant makes 2nd team without question and probably a couple first teams in 92 or 93 since Moncrief was done by that point and Dumars was fading fast.

Would Kobe finish higher in MVP voteing if he played in a NBA against Magic, Bird, MJ, Charles, K Malone, Hakeem, Shaq, DRob and 2nd tier players like Mosses, DrJ, Kareem and Nique?

Not sure why you're talking about Dr. J, Moses Malone, Kareem, or Bird, as Clyde was just starting to peak as these players were fading fast (Kareem was ancient by the late 80's, Bird blew out his back, and Moses and J's knees were done). Therefore, Kobe would without question garner more MVP votes than late 80's Bird, Kareem, Moses, and Dr. J, any version of Nique or Barkley, and most versions of Karl Malone. Shaq was a rookie in 92 and wasn't dominant until 94, so he's virtually irrelevant in this discussion. This is all assuming similar quality teammates and wins, obviously. Therefore, the players he very likely wouldn't beat out would be Magic, though he'd get close, but Magic was out of the league by 91 anyway leaving Bryant the next few years to finish 2nd to Jordan, who Bryant was never as good as in MJ's prime. Bryant might beat out some versions of Hakeem, but I would definitely say he shouldn't. Robinson was a rookie in 89, so Bryant would beat him out that season. I'd put him over Robinson in 90 too, even though he's inferior defensively I see prime Bryant as being too superior offensively as both a passer/scorer and Drob too soft in the postseason to put him ahead in 90 too.

During the late 80's to early 90's (88-93) is where Bryant would make his killing, assuming Bryant entered the NBA in the same season as Drexler (83-84) at the age Bryant entered the NBA in real life (18 his rookie year). He'd make many 2nd All D teams and maybe a couple 1st's, 2-3 All NBA 1st Teams, and finish similarly high in MVP votes as he has the last 3 seasons (top 5).

Phil Jackson wrote:Kobe Bryant because he lead his team to 3 championships. Drexler lost in the finals to someone who's not as good as Kobe Bryant.

?????????????

Drexler went with Portland twice, and lost to the Bad Boys Pistons, and Michael Jordan in his prime Bulls. The 2000's Lakers wouldn't have beaten either of those teams.

He went to Houston and won 2 titles there. Who exactly did Drexler lose to thats worse than Bryant?

farzi wrote:?????????????

Drexler went with Portland twice, and lost to the Bad Boys Pistons, and Michael Jordan in his prime Bulls. The 2000's Lakers wouldn't have beaten either of those teams.

He went to Houston and won 2 titles there. Who exactly did Drexler lose to thats worse than Bryant?

Which two titles are you talking about here? Drexler got traded to the Rockets halfway through the second championship season.

My bad.

Doesn't change the fact that when he lost, he lost to the best player of all time, as well as arguably one of the best teams in history.

farzi wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



?????????????

Drexler went with Portland twice, and lost to the Bad Boys Pistons, and Michael Jordan in his prime Bulls. The 2000's Lakers wouldn't have beaten either of those teams.

He went to Houston and won 2 titles there. Who exactly did Drexler lose to thats worse than Bryant?

Don't worry about that poster, he is a troll. He once put MJ at 10 all time with Kobe #1 and Karl Malone #9.

EHL wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Not sure why you're talking about Dr. J, Moses Malone, Kareem, or Bird, as Clyde was just starting to peak as these players were fading fast (Kareem was ancient by the late 80's, Bird blew out his back, and Moses and J's knees were done). Therefore, Kobe would without question garner more MVP votes than late 80's Bird, Kareem, Moses, and Dr. J, any version of Nique or Barkley, and most versions of Karl Malone. Shaq was a rookie in 92 and wasn't dominant until 94, so he's virtually irrelevant in this discussion. This is all assuming similar quality teammates and wins, obviously. Therefore, the players he very likely wouldn't beat out would be Magic, though he'd get close, but Magic was out of the league by 91 anyway leaving Bryant the next few years to finish 2nd to Jordan, who Bryant was never as good as in MJ's prime. Bryant might beat out some versions of Hakeem, but I would definitely say he shouldn't. Robinson was a rookie in 89, so Bryant would beat him out that season. I'd put him over Robinson in 90 too, even though he's inferior defensively I see prime Bryant as being too superior offensively as both a passer/scorer and Drob too soft in the postseason to put him ahead in 90 too.

During the late 80's to early 90's (88-93) is where Bryant would make his killing, assuming Bryant entered the NBA in the same season as Drexler (83-84) at the age Bryant entered the NBA in real life (18 his rookie year). He'd make many 2nd All D teams and maybe a couple 1st's, 2-3 All NBA 1st Teams, and finish similarly high in MVP votes as he has the last 3 seasons (top 5).

If Bryant comes into the league the same year Drexler does, he is still finishing behind Bird in 84-85, 85-86, 86-87, 87-88, 89-90. That right there is 5 of Bryants first 8 years. He is behind Magic up untill 90-91, though its debatable. Obviously MJ...

I take Robinson over him, and possibly Hakeem(although I think he is extremely overrated on these boards). I think Malone was a better player than Bryant as well. Shaq regardless of what you think Shaq was, by 93-94 he was a better player than Bryant currently or has ever been. He had arrived.

I think Bryant is about here, right under these guys. In the same class as Barkley.

With Drexler, IT, Stockton about here.

Mullen, Wilkins, etc...Here.


For the record, I think Stockton was a more consistent, and harder worker on the defensive end than Kobe. I think when Kobe turns it on, he is better and has a great impact, but Stockton did it longer, more consistent and worked harder for it too imo. To dismiss him as not being close to Bryant, is either you not watching him, or being a homer.

tkb wrote:Add on to Tesla's post:

Kobe Bryant
All NBA 1st Team: 5
All NBA 2nd Team: 2
All NBA 3rd Team: 2
Total: 9

All D 1st: 5
All D 2nd: 2
Total: 7

Top 5 MVP voting: 5
Top 10 MVP voting: 6

Clyde Drexler
All NBA 1st Team: 1
All NBA 2nd Team: 2
All NBA 3rd Team: 2
Total: 5

All D 1st: 0
All D 2nd: 0
Total: 0

Top 5 MVP voting: 2
Top 10 MVP voting: 4

It's clearly Kobe.

Meaningless, ALL NBA teams especially in recent years, have proved to be garbage. I love the guy, but for god sakes Amare freaking Stoudemire has an ALL NBA first team. A lot of the time its based off reputation. This is Kobe by the way, the same guy who started in an ALL STAR game as a backup. The same guy who we have always been told is the second coming to MJ. The same guy who we have always been told is the guy everyone wants taking the last second shot, but has proven to be in the middle of the pack in the upper echelon of the superstars in terms of clutchness. I personally think he is the most overrated player maybe ever. But by far these last 10 years or so.

All that being said, I lived in Portland and am a huge Drexler fan, but I think Kobe was better. I do not think he was the superior defender that the ALL NBA teams make it seem. I think its a lot closer than that. I do however think when Bryant turns it on he is dominate. But especially in past years he has been alittle blah...I realized how overrated he was in that department when I watched Joe Johnson continue to torch him here in Phoenix. But he does have more ability. Drexler was a fantastic defender, and I firmly believe Kobe would not have close to the accolaids he has now if he had played in the mid 80's through the late 90's. Or even if he played in a place that was as blah and quiet as the northwest is. Not alot of hype comes out of that area.

Tesla's post pointed out to be especially the numbers part that Drexler was a very productive player from an all around stand point, turned it over less, was more effiecent. But was not the volume shooter Kobe is. To start a franchise, I still take Kobe, but this comparison is not nearly as far apart as some here are making it. People make it seem like its a Jordan/Michael Redd comparison or something. I would be tempted to put Drexler in because he would be easier to build around, make happy, and plug into diffrent systems without headaches. This is a very close comparison.