James/Bynum vs. Howard/Anthony

[Lakers05]

Did you read the premise of the post(hint: it's usually at the beginning of the post)? Not saying that Bynum will average Howard's numbers from now on(competition has been weak, and our backup, Kwame, is much better than the one Howard has, even a difference of 5 minutes will make a significant difference, add that to the fact that we'll regularly be blowing out teams and I really don't see Bynum having to average more than 32 minutes the rest of the season, but make no mistake, he has no limitations, no stamina problem, no foul problem that prevents him from doing so), but they are a lot closer than you think.

[Lakers05]

Oh yeah, Howard also plays with a lot less talented teammates, and as I pointed out, your stats suffer playing with more talented teammates(your wins go up however, which give people the impression that this guy is making that guy better, when in fact, there's no such things.) I'd trade Bynum for Howard without hesitation at the beginning of the season. I don't do this now.

[TooNice00]

Did you read the premise of the post(hint: it's usually at the beginning of the post)? Not saying that Bynum will average Howard's numbers from now on(competition has been weak, and our backup, Kwame, is much better than the one Howard has, even a difference of 5 minutes will make a significant difference, add that to the fact that we'll regularly be blowing out teams and I really don't see Bynum having to average more than 32 minutes the rest of the season, but make no mistake, he has no limitations, no stamina problem, no foul problem that prevents him from doing so), but they are a lot closer than you think.

ok keep telling youself that minutes is the only thing that separates bynum and howard if it makes you feel better. take a look at this in november bynum averaged 11 and 10 in 26 minutes. in december bynum averaged 14 and 9 in 32 minutes. that is a 6 minutes difference and hardly a massive increase in statistics in terms of points and rebounds.

[ITK9]

d12 and melo easily.lebron is the best but bynum is not even close to the other 3 players here.

[ITK9]

Oh yeah, Howard also plays with a lot less talented teammates,

ha?

[TooNice00]

Oh yeah, Howard also plays with a lot less talented teammates, and as I pointed out, your stats suffer playing with more talented teammates(your wins go up however, which give people the impression that this guy is making that guy better, when in fact, there's no such things.) I'd trade Bynum for Howard without hesitation at the beginning of the season. I don't do this now.

if you wouldn't trade bynum for howard than who would you trade bynum for? i guess bynum has the second most trade value in the league. i mean unless you wouldn't trade him for lebron either.

[ITK9]

I'd trade Bynum for Howard without hesitation at the beginning of the season. I don't do this now.

[Lakers05]

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ok keep telling youself that minutes is the only thing that separates bynum and howard if it makes you feel better. take a look at this in november bynum averaged 11 and 10 in 26 minutes. in december bynum averaged 14 and 9 in 32 minutes. that is a 6 minutes difference and hardly a massive increase in statistics in terms of points and rebounds.

I just love how people just cite 13 and 10, 14 and 9, ignoring stats like assists, turnovers, FG% and blks(this is why I like to look at EFF because it counts all of these things). Bynum's EFF is 7 points lower than Howard, however, he's playing 9 minutes less. Assuming that Bynum was to average the same EFF per min that he is now in those extra 9 minutes, then his EFF would be at almost exactly Howard's level.

Now take into account Bynum playing with more talented teammates, that he's improved even more in January(in other words, his EFF per min NOW is much better than his regular season rate), and you can see that the difference between Howard and Bynum is a lot closer than people think.

Of course, I'm also assuming that Bynum would have the same stamina in that extra 9 minutes, which is no guarantee. However, if we were to assume the lower stamina, then we should also assume that playing against bench players more(which he would in those 9 minutes, right now, his substution pattern forces him to play against starters only) would nullify that.

One of the things I've learned is that you can pretty much see everything when you look at ALL of the variables, and right now, after taking into account all of the variables, they point to Bynum being very close to Howard.

[Griever24]

Close but ill take Lebron and Bynum

[Lakers05]

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if you wouldn't trade bynum for howard than who would you trade bynum for? i guess bynum has the second most trade value in the league. i mean unless you wouldn't trade him for lebron either.

I'd have to think about Lebron. Lebron, if he had a work ethic(yes, I'm calling him lazy), would easily be the best player in the league. Depends on whether Phil can motivate him.

[Lakers05]

BTW, EFF reflects very closely to who coaches have selected to All-Star games, or who we perceive to be better than who(much closer than PER, which fluctuates wildly if the number of minutes played aren't on the same level, the only time I've seen PER being more accurate than EFF is that it showed KG being equal to Duncan last year, when if you look at EFF, it showed KG being much better, which quite frankly, if you count the regular season only, he was, since Duncan didn't play as many minutes), so it is not a wild stats.

[TooNice00]

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I just love how people just cite 13 and 10, 14 and 9, ignoring stats like assists, turnovers, FG% and blks(this is why I like to look at EFF because it counts all of these things). Bynum's EFF is 7 points lower than Howard, however, he's playing 9 minutes less. Assuming that Bynum was to average the same EFF per min that he is now in those extra 9 minutes, then his EFF would be at almost exactly Howard's level.

Now take into account Bynum playing with more talented teammates, that he's improved even more in January(in other words, his EFF per min NOW is much better than his regular season rate), and you can see that the difference between Howard and Bynum is a lot closer than people think.

Of course, I'm also assuming that Bynum would have the same stamina in that extra 9 minutes, which is no guarantee. However, if we were to assume the lower stamina, then we should also assume that playing against bench players more(which he would in those 9 minutes, right now, his substution pattern forces him to play against starters only) would nullify that.

One of the things I've learned is that you can pretty much see everything when you look at ALL of the variables, and right now, after taking into account all of the variables, they point to Bynum being very close to Howard.

one thing i've learned is when you assume things are gonna happen you often run into problems. this isn't baseball where you can analyze players stats individually in such a simplistic way like EFF just carries along the same as you play more minutes. basketball is a team game. until bynum averages similar minutes to howard this comparison is stupid. all he has to even bring him to howards level is per minute production but even then howard is better than him. howards has a higher PER and EFF. you put too much stock into your variables(which are very much flawed) and not enough into the basic fact howard scores 10 more ppg and grab 5 more rebounds and on and on at everything howard does better.

[TooNice00]

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I'd have to think about Lebron. Lebron, if he had a work ethic(yes, I'm calling him lazy), would easily be the best player in the league. Depends on whether Phil can motivate him.

are you kidding me? you would have to think about trading bynum for lebron.

[ClubLakers KB8]

i can't believe people are seriously trying to put bynum and howard in the same sentence

Dwight Howard played 2,670 minutes in his rookie season.

Bynum has, up until the last game, played 3,120 minutes in his career.

I guarantee everyone here that Bynum will be just as good, if not better, than Howard within two years. I've been watching basketball for a long, long time, and this kid has it all. He's putting it all together, and when it finally "clicks", the league is going to be pissing themselves.

[TooNice00]

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Dwight Howard played 2,670 minutes in his rookie season.

Bynum has, up until the last game, played 3,120 minutes in his career.

I guarantee everyone here that Bynum will be just as good, if not better, than Howard within two years. I've been watching basketball for a long, long time, and this kid has it all. He's putting it all together, and when it finally "clicks", the league is going to be pissing themselves.

bynum didn't play those many minutes his rookie season because he sucked. [Edited by mod--Play nice, everybody.] you can go pretend in your little basketball world that bynum is gonna dominate the league one day.

[ClubLakers KB8]

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bynum didn't play those many minutes his rookie season because he sucked. [Edited by mod--Play nice, everybody.] you can go pretend in your little basketball world that bynum is gonna dominate the league one day.

Resorting to name calling huh?

Call me an idiot all you want, but it's a little premature, seeing as I said to give him a few years.

But you have more posts than I do, so you must be right.

[a-rod]

i can't believe people are seriously trying to put bynum and howard in the same sentence

howard rallies too much on his athletics ability, while bynum is very fundamentally sound player, thats brings me to my point witch is your pound to lose athletics ability but fundamentals and footwork last a lot longer.

[Jules Winnfield]

If Bynum didn't have a Kobe/Lebron type player on his team, he would attract most of the attention. He'd easily suck. I'm sorry. I like Bynum and he's good...BUT HE IS DOING THIS IN SINGLE COVERAGE. Kobe, Fisher and Odom pretty much do the dirty work to get bynum his points. He has nice footwork, but I mean...whatever.

What I'm getting at is that I'd trade Bynum for Dwight today and guarantee LA would win the championship for the next three years. I'd call Otis with that offer and he'd hang the phone up and never speak to me again.

Kobe + Howard would easily be the best duo in the league.

Oh and for the thread, I also pick Lebron/Bynum but only because Lebron is better than both Howard and Melo put together.

[Lakers05]

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bynum didn't play those many minutes his rookie season because he sucked. you and lakers05 are both idiots. you can go pretend in your little basketball world that bynum is gonna dominate the league one day.

Isn't that against the rules? I hope you don't get banned, though I hope the mods allow me to do the same.

Or I'll just be safe and say, "right back at ya"

[TooNice00]

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howard rallies too much on his athletics ability, while bynum is very fundamentally sound player, thats brings to my point witch is your pound to lose athletics ability but fundamentals and footwork last a lot longer.

and bynum doesn't rely on his athletic ability? when he is second in the league in dunks i believe. howard is first but he also attempts 5 more shots than bynum does and its more remarkable he does this seeing double teams and tripple teams even without the ball. and gets intentionally fouled all the time too.