Ronnie Brewer Vs Linas Kleiza Revisited!

yunggunz · Post #1 » by **yunggunz** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:38 am

Some of you might call me opportunistic for posting this now, but during tonights game I remembered a year ago I posted a kleiza vs brewer thread and was laughed off the board. Well i think it is worth another visit.

Kleiza: 11/4/1.5

Brewer: 12/3/2 in considerably more minutes

The argument for Brewer is that he is a much better defender. However, from what I have seen Brewer is actually a quite poor defender, and pretty much every defensive statistic out there would back up that assertion. In fact, Kleiza beats Brewer in most categories (opponent efg% on/off, opp. PER, opp. ppg, opp. efg% etc). Additionally, Kleiza is a bench player with a fantastic +/-, while Brewer is a starter with a piss poor +/-.

Add to that the fact Kleiza can play 3 positions and has an outside shot, and I think you have to go with Kleiza.

thoughts?

Ballings7 · Post #2 » by **Ballings7** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:06 am

I think it depends what you need in a complementary player on a team. They're both noticably different.

I like what I've seen (a decent amount) of both, also. Not sure for one of them...

hermes · Post #3 » by **hermes** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:36 pm

i'd take brewer
but it would greatly depend on the team your constructing

Monkeyfeng06 · Post #4 » by **Monkeyfeng06** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:32 pm

brewer.

he brews.

yunggunz · Post #5 » by **yunggunz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:31 am

Its funny how many "****" were seen the first time I did this poll. how quickly things change.

I have an extremely hard time seeing a GM in the NBA taking Brewer over Kleiza.

NetsForce · Post #6 » by **NetsForce** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:35 am

Antoine Wright.

raps4life~ · Post #7 » by **raps4life~** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:47 am

Kleiza has been owning in the absence of Melo.

MagicFan3 · Post #8 » by **MagicFan3** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:02 am

I'd definitely take Kleiza now, but to be fair he's improved drastically. There's a reason it's now a logical comparison.

yunggunz · Post #9 » by **yunggunz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:18 am

MagicFan3 wrote:I'd definitely take Kleiza now, but to be fair he's improved drastically. There's a reason it's now a logical comparison.

It was always a logical comparison. People just get drunk on the "lotto pick kool-aid" and draft profiles that do silly things like compare Brewer to Josh Howard or Cedric Simmons to Dwight.

MagicFan3 · Post #10 » by **MagicFan3** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:20 am

I never really thought of Brewer as that big of a deal when he was drafted, but he played well and proved me wrong. Kleiza was a solid player last season, but has really started to show something this season.

carrottop12 · Post #11 » by **carrottop12** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:40 am

yunggunz wrote:Some of you might call me opportunistic for posting this now, but during tonights game I remembered a year ago I posted a kleiza vs brewer thread and was laughed off the board. Well i think it is worth another visit.

Kleiza: 11/4/1.5

Brewer: 12/3/2 in considerably more minutes

The argument for Brewer is that he is a much better defender. However, from what I have seen Brewer is actually a quite poor defender, and pretty much every defensive statistic out there would back up that assertion. In fact, Kleiza beats Brewer in most categories (opponent efg% on/off, opp. PER, opp. ppg, opp. efg% etc). Additionally, Kleiza is a bench player with a fantastic +/-, while Brewer is a starter with a piss poor +/-.

Add to that the fact Kleiza can play 3 positions and has an outside shot, and I think you have to go with Kleiza.

thoughts?

As soon as Klieza starts being the guy the Nuggets put on Kobe, K-Mart, McGrady, Vince, Lewis, Redd...

Well you get the point, of course the guys Brewer guards put up better percentages, he always guards the best player on the floor.

Klieza is a one trick pony, Brewer has a ton of NBA skills.

yunggunz · Post #12 » by **yunggunz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:02 am

Batronuj wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

As soon as Klieza starts being the guy the Nuggets put on Kobe, K-Mart, McGrady, Vince, Lewis, Redd...

Well you get the point, of course the guys Brewer guards put up better percentages, he always guards the best player on the floor.

Klieza is a one trick pony, Brewer has a ton of NBA skills.

Just because Brewer is guarding Kobe, K-Mart, Vince, McGrady etc. doesnt make him good at it. Kevin Martin had 32 points tonight. In the 2 games before that, Maggette had 43 points on over 50% shooting. In other games this month Lewis had 27, Barbosa had 25, Webster had 26, Iggy had 30. So he's not doing a very good job with his assignments. Aside from that, how do you account for the fact that team defensive stats are noticeably worse with Brewer on the court?

To put it in perspective.....the Nuggets have a rotation of AI/Carter/Melo, which should be a nightmare defensively against opposing swingmen (and it is). They play at a faster pace than the Jazz, yet give up the same amount of points to opposing SG/SF per game (on a much lower efg%). So it would appear that anthony carter is as good of a defender against the Tmacs and Kobes as Ronnie Brewer. Unless of course, you want to say that Melo is a better defender than AK47.

And how on earth is Kleiza a one trick pony? Offensively he can shoot the three or bang down low in the paint with anyone. Defensively, he can cover 2's, 3's, and 4's. He is also an exponentially better rebounder than Brewer. How exactly does that make him a one trick pony?

That Nicka · Post #13 » by **That Nicka** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:10 am

From what Ive seen of both of him, Brewer is a pretty good defender.. Not great but definitely good for a 2nd year player..

It depends on preference for who you would take... One is a good slasher/defender... The other is a good scorer/shooter

I personally would take Brewer because Im a fan of defense.. but its not a ridiculous comparison and you wouldnt be crazy for picking either one

Post #14 » by **corona** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:32 pm

As soon as Klieza starts being the guy the Nuggets put on Kobe, K-Mart, McGrady, Vince, Lewis, Redd...

brewer only gets those assignments defensively because everyone else on Utah's a worse perimeter defender than he is (and williams needs some energy for the offensive end). unfortunately for brewer, that doesn't say much about his defensive abilities...as korver/harpring would have trouble staying in front of ilgauskas, and the size of hart/price make them non-factors.

i wonder where these reputations originate from...of being a good defender, or bad one. it'd be interesting to chart their progress.
is it from college? a pre-draft workout? because kobe/mcgrady/allen...etc had one cold shooting night against them early in their career? seems to be pretty random at times.

brewer's been lit up by opposing guards & forwards all season long. his opponent PER is awful at any position he plays, utah's defense is significantly worse with him on the court than off. that and his lack of a consistent perimeter shot have him falling further and further out of sloan's rotation.

he has slow lateral quickness for the position he plays, a slow reaction time 1v1, and he doesn't know that many tricks (drawing offensive fouls, getting jump balls in 1v1 situations, when to bump..when not to...etc) but good anticipation on passing lanes. that doesn't make him a good defender.

RealTalkof916 · Post #15 » by **RealTalkof916** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:42 pm

Give me Kleiza. Lighting up the Jazz for 41 points was no fluke. He's a solid 3-point shooter, he moves well without the ball, and he's becoming a good slasher.