RealGM

MaNs1 wrote:So Ginobili is penalized for playing for a good team (with another good player in his position) and a coach that uses his players wisely during the regular season .

If Ginobili's stats mean jack because of the minutes he plays i guess that Duncan should get some burn for this as well as he plays only 4.5 more mpg than ginobili without a player as good as Finley in his position.Apparently this is not because Popovic doesn't want to tear his players off (especially during the regular season) but because of their shortcomings.

The argument that someone's stats are padded because he plays for a good team (Not with a good Playmaker,with a good team) have been used only against Ginobili.Generally it goes the other way around....


Anyway though.Lets say that Ginobili paddes his stats because of his low minutes and because he plays with Duncan(His stats with and without Duncan do not suggest something like this but whatever.I don't have them right now but they have been brought up in another thread about Ginobili earlier this year.I hope someone can bring them to contribute in this conversation).

Even if you are right about this and Ginobili drops dead after 30something minutes.His drop-off if he played 4.5 more mpg would be so HUGE that suggests JJ is better than him?

I dont think you have noticed the per40 numbers that nate presented so take another look ..

Player PTS REB AST STL BLK TO eFG% TS% PER
ginobili,man 27.1 6.6 5.8 2.5 0.6 3.8 .518 .592 24.9
johnson,joe 21.9 4.1 5.4 0.9 0.1 2.5 .467 .521 16.8

The statistical advantage of Ginobili is pretty much insane.He KILLS him in every statistical category except TO's.

Even if you think that PER is a really flawed stat(which is) you can't ignore a difference of 8.1 points.For some perspective the carreer difference in PER between Jordan and Allen Iverson is 6.4 points.

Then you add whatever stats and PER does not include like defense ,intangibles ,clutch play etC ...

Well Ginobili is pretty much notorious for each one of them.

He is regularly amongst the leaders in every defensive stat out there and he is generally considered a top-tier wing defender while JJ is just slightly above average.

He is also considered a great team guy and a leader that have won everywhere that he has played.He has the wins in every level to back his case while JJ was like the 4th best player in Suns and then he was traded for Diaw and Suns not only did not lose a step but improved.From then on he plays in a losing team which especially this year is underachieving despite supposedly having all this "talent".

Now considering their clutch play.I suppose that as a member in bball forum you have watched the recent PO's .The appereances that Manu has made in these games speak for their own for his clutch factor...

Kosta wrote:Ginobbblliiiii!

TAI8 wrote:Even a Hawks fan selected Ginobili, this thread isn't close at all.

High 5 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Don't get me wrong, Joe is a more talented player, he can do everything Ginobili does and more, but he is just off this year for whatever reason. Joe doesn't have a Duncan or Parker to take the pressure off of him though. He's the focus of the defense every night.

UDRIH14 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



wat a load of BS

when he was with the suns, he had nash, amare, marion

and manu torched him every head 2 head

gino doesnt give a rats if his the main player or the scrub on the team, he does what he has to do to win the game, UNLIKE JJ who wanted to be a franchise player which he clearly is not, he made the choice and his paying for it with a borderline team

High 5 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Yeah, on the Suns he was the 4th option and played about as well as Ginobili ever has his last year when the Suns were good. It just took Joe a longer time than most players to mature.

I wish the player comparison machine was still up on basketball-reference because I really don't think the head-to-head matchups are as big as some think. Manu just had that really really good game last year where he coudn't miss.

Ginobili couldn't do what Joe has done with the Hawks, though. No doubt about it. And I just checked out Ginobili's stats and he's only shooting like 43%. For some reason I thought he was around 50%. It's a lot closer this year than I thought.

And chill out.

High 5 wrote:Ginobili couldn't do what Joe has done with the Hawks, though. No doubt about it. And I just checked out Ginobili's stats and he's only shooting like 43%. For some reason I thought he was around 50%. It's a lot closer this year than I thought.

And chill out.