Jordan as a rookie or a 27 years-old Kobe (05-06)?

clipocketurs · Post #1 » by **clipocketurs** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:51 am

Who do you think was better?

Jordan finished with the 2nd highest PER his rookie season.
05-06 is generally considered Kobe's best season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ami01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nko01.html

celticfan42487 · Post #2 » by **celticfan42487** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:27 pm

27yr old Kobe. He had a 3 point shot that MJ didn't have at that time. And teh superstart status to get the calls come playoff time.

Retrolock · Post #3 » by **Retrolock** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:50 pm

^well, those superstar calls really helped Kobe against his matchup with the suns lol

Jordan. He was only a rookie but man, 28 points a game with better fg%?

Phil Jackson · Post #4 » by **Phil Jackson** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:11 pm

Steve Nash got superstar calls.

I'll take rookie Kobe Bryant over rookie Jordan.

technologic · Post #5 » by **technologic** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:29 pm

Phil Jackson wrote:Steve Nash got superstar calls.

I'll take rookie Kobe Bryant over rookie Jordan.

agreed.

Retrolock · Post #6 » by **Retrolock** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:32 pm

Phil Jackson wrote:I'll take rookie Kobe Bryant over rookie Jordan.

I'll take rookie Lamar Odom over a rookie Kobe Bryant

Jordan23Forever · Post #7 » by **Jordan23Forever** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:51 pm

I'd take Kobe, but that's probably the only one of Jordan's seasons that any of Kobe's seasons thus far has been better than save for post-34 year old seasons from Jordan. That in itself says a lot.

'06 Kobe was more impactful than rookie Jordan, though rookie Jordan contributed more in terms of an all-around game than '06 Kobe did (12 games of 10+ boards to Kobe's 3; 21 games of 8+ assists to Kobe's 13).

Kobe's Win Shares that season were 40, which was good for 7th in the league. Jordan's rookie Win Shares was also 40, but it was good for 3rd in the league. Jordan also shot a higher % (FG%, eFG%, TS%) his rookie year than Kobe ever did, and was higher above league average TS% than Kobe's ever been.

Kobe was probably a better individual defender than rookie Jordan (who was very good and showed flashes, but wasn't consistent yet), but Jordan has always been a better team/help defender.

To win a game, I'd probably take '06 Kobe, but it's fairly close -- experience counts for a lot, and Kobe was a veteran by that point.

Phil Jackson wrote:I'll take rookie Kobe Bryant over rookie Jordan

Yeah man, take a 7 pt/2/1/42% FG guy who couldn't even get playing time over Eddie Jones over a guy putting up 28/7/6/2+/1/52% FG. Makes tons of sense. :lol:

Post #8 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:06 pm

I think I'd take Kobe in this case as well, if only because of the whole veteran/experience angle, especially because '06 Kobe had four trips to the Finals under his belt (even if I'd rather forget one of them).

That kind of experience is invaluable.

Kobay · Post #9 » by **Kobay** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:33 pm

You just can't have guys like LeBron or Kobe who are Jordan caliber offensively in a no double team or no zone defense era they would just be unstoppable like Jordan especially LeBron; he would probably dominate them and have higher chance of taking a crap team to championship like Hakeem...well if he plays defense like him.

Jordan23Forever · Post #10 » by **Jordan23Forever** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:02 pm

Kobay wrote:You just can't have guys like LeBron or Kobe who are Jordan caliber offensively in a no double team or no zone defense era

No double teams? Jordan saw doubles and even triples his entire career. No official zone allowed, sure, but lots of teams (Milwaukee, Boston, Detroit, NY) played masked zones and were rarely called on it.

they would just be unstoppable like Jordan especially LeBron

Lebron we have no evidence for either way, but admittedly his ceiling is probably higher than Kobe's regardless of era or rules due to his natural gifts.

However, Kobe was never stunningly efficient like Jordan was even before teams started employing the zone, and when he had the MDE alongside him drawing multiple defenders every time down the floor. Despite all this (man to man coverage, few double teams due to Shaq, lesser energy expended due to Shaq), Kobe never even managed to shoot 47% in a single season. Expecting people to believe that Kobe would have been "just as unstoppable" as Jordan in light of the evidence is risible. This is to say nothing about the other differences between them...

Phil Jackson · Post #11 » by **Phil Jackson** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:03 pm

Yeah man, take a 7 pt/2/1/42% FG guy who couldn't even get playing time over Eddie Jones over a guy putting up 28/7/6/2+/1/52% FG. Makes tons of sense.

Yeah I'll take the Greatest of All Time over the 9th greatest. It makes perfect sense.

JordansBulls · Post #12 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:07 pm

Phil Jackson wrote:
Yeah man, take a 7 pt/2/1/42% FG guy who couldn't even get playing time over Eddie Jones over a guy putting up 28/7/6/2+/1/52% FG. Makes tons of sense.

Yeah I'll take the Greatest of All Time over the 9th greatest. It makes perfect sense.

So that means you take Jordan over someone like Shaq, it makes perfect sense, because Kobe right now is between 15-20.

exkonvict · Post #13 » by **exkonvict** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:09 pm

WTF is this a joke? A better comparison would be putting in Jordan's Championship seasons to play with Kobe's best chucking season. Jordan didn't even see that much defense against him in his 1st three years.

Jordan23Forever · Post #14 » by **Jordan23Forever** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:45 pm

exkonvict wrote:WTF is this a joke? A better comparison would be putting in Jordan's Championship seasons to play with Kobe's best chucking season. Jordan didn't even see that much defense against him in his 1st three years.

Nice try, but anyone who saw Jordan from '85-'90 know that that statement is false.

Post #15 » by **tsherkin** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:52 am

exkonvict wrote:WTF is this a joke? A better comparison would be putting in Jordan's Championship seasons to play with Kobe's best chucking season. Jordan didn't even see that much defense against him in his 1st three years.

This is a foolish thing to say; Jordan was the ONLY significant threat on Chicago for a while; he saw more defense than most guys in the league especially because of that and how explosive a scorer he proved to be.

Your statement is ridiculous.

kbitboc · Post #16 » by **kbitboc** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:58 am

JordansBulls wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So that means you take Jordan over someone like Shaq, it makes perfect sense, because Kobe right now is between 15-20.

No, it means he'll take Lebron over MJ.

Phil Jackson · Post #17 » by **Phil Jackson** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:04 am

JordansBulls wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So that means you take Jordan over someone like Shaq, it makes perfect sense, because Kobe right now is between 15-20.

No, I'll take Kobe Bryant (Greatest of All Time) over someone like Jordan (9th Greatest)

Heat3 · Post #18 » by **Heat3** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:14 am

Phil Jackson wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

No, I'll take Kobe Bryant (Greatest of All Time) over someone like Jordan (9th Greatest)

Man and your avatar makes this even better. Kobe giving a smug grin completes this foolishness.

exkonvict · Post #19 » by **exkonvict** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:42 am

tsherkin wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

This is a foolish thing to say; Jordan was the ONLY significant threat on Chicago for a while; he saw more defense than most guys in the league especially because of that and how explosive a scorer he proved to be.

Your statement is ridiculous.

Don't be bending the truth. I'm a major Jordan fan but I give credit where credit is due. In his most famous playoff performance, Jordan went for 63 against the ridiculous Celtics. The game before that Jordan scored 49 & McHales says "That will never happen again." Well, it did, to what people living in the past would say as a "solid" defense.

However, if you actually saw that game multiple times like I had, you would realize how weak the defense was. If Kobe played in that game, given the green light like MJ was given, he would have scored 120 points after 2 overtimes.

Don't believe me? Here's a small clip. Pay attention to the soft defense of the Championship 80's.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=69vkEcc-zfc

Jordan23Forever · Post #20 » by **Jordan23Forever** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:09 am

exkonvict wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

If Kobe played in that game, given the green light like MJ was given, he would have scored 120 points after 2 overtimes.

Wow...do you really expect anyone to take you seriously when you say such ridiculous things?

Don't believe me? Here's a small clip. Pay attention to the soft defense of the Championship 80's.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=69vkEcc-zfc

What are we supposed to be seeing in that clip? Because I see one of the best defenders of all time getting abused, double teams and help defense being beaten, and big men clogging the lane all game (which they can't do now). Honestly, the only play that could be construed as poor defense is the jumper at 5:20, and it was actually smart defense to go under the screen against young Jordan, since he could easily penetrate if you tried to fight over the top.

120 points, he says... :rofl:

You heard it here, folks: Kobe Bryant is literally twice as good as Michael Jordan! :lol: